Monday, April 10

Freedom of Speech

EDIT:PLEASE READ CONFUSED'S LATEST POST - he expresses my exact views about fanaticism brilliantly and that's just what I wanted to convey from my 'Whispers of a Veil' post. Take it as you like it folks!
Many people are afraid to speak out, to stand up for themselves, to question the unquestioned, to challenge the dangerous, to doubt their own...but I'm not. I believe in freedom of speech and myself, and even if it's going to hurt my best friend or my mother, I will say what I feel is the truth and what I believe in. Especially if it's something that violates human rights, I don't care if it's my blood, my race, my country or my friend that's the reason for it, I will speak out. I can't stand hypocrisy and I will say so and I will give you my story. If you can't take it, or if you think I'm wrong, give me your valid reasons here...if you keep silent and tell everyone else that you are hurt, then you have either misunderstood me or you think I'm cruelly right or you are too afraid to speak out here or you are one who don't find freedom of speech right.

People, my
'Whispers of a Veil' post has disheartened few of my close friends in the blogland. But that doesn't take back any of the words I said in that post. I said it cos I know what I was talking about and I don't believe I hurt anyone's feelings there except the fanatic muslims (not the good muslims). I was talking about muslim hardliners that treat women like second class citizens and punish them brutally if they don't wear the hijab and that's about all. I was not generalising ALL muslims. My friend Jackal has written a post as a reply to that. I respect what he has to say about it, cos that's what he believes. However I choose to disagree with him on some points but that doesn't make us enemies. I hear from his blog that my friend Sebia was deeply hurt by my post and has written a post about this (which I haven't fully checked yet 'cos I didn't even know about it till I heard it from elsewhere and Sebzz didnt leave a comment here either). My point is that no one deserves to be punished for not following some dress code. If someone says that Westerners are bikini-clad/naked people with no shame, well they don't get punished for that, do they? Cos people should be given the freedom to wear what they want, and that was my point and nothing else Sebz! Sebz, you should have written me a comment here, instead you went and wrote a huge judgmental post about me, and disabled comments too. Why?? Did you ever read my 'A Faithless Journey' post? Yes I could have asked you (I was not in touch with you for so long and I was under the impression that you don't visit my blog for quite sometime now..anyways) before I wrote the post but nothing would have changed in the post Sebz...cos what I said still stands as the truth for me. I spoke to my Muslim friends here and they read it too...they were not offended by it cos my aim of the post was more about the dress code and the punishings , not the Muslims alone. How can you get so hurt when I'm not even talking about the good muslims? You got to read my posts clearly and get the point before crashing down to conclusions Sebz. And na I don't get some adrenaline rush from making fun of anyone's religion here on the net - thanks for assuming that about me. If there's anyone who respects all faiths, then I'll top the list but na I won't tolerate people committing crimes in the name of religions - SORRY! And no I cant understand why you're hurt by this - cos if someone came and told me that the Hindu/Catholic extremists are blood-thirsty criminals, I'd agree with them instead of feeling sorry for my faith and my people or even defending them - cos crime shouldn't be tolerated irrespective of faith. If all of the good muslims out there like you, stopped praising these hardliners and for once stood up for human rights, then we might not have so many women suffering in silence.

Anyways, what I intend to convey to everyone, yes everyone out there, is that I will write what I feel in my blog and as it can get very personal, if anyone is hurt by my thoughts here, I really can't help that...cos this is me, and this is how I feel. If you have to say something, say it here, right on my face. If you don't like me or my thoughts, you're most welcome not to read my blog - you got a choice here. Where I live people value freedom of speech and we argue openly, healthily and in a civil manner. I'm not here to please anyone and I will speak what I feel and I shall speak the truth. And you are entitled to think anything about me. Thanks everyone!

141 Cranium Signets:

Anand said...

thats the attitude girl!
I faced this once too and did the mistake of editing my post simple coz the intent wasnt to hurt anyone...but realised later on--u cant please them all!
stick to your guns!

saby said...

DUMMY !
i warned u
u were treading on dangerous ground

a dress code dictated by religion
cannot be put up for debate by bloggers

wat u done is the equivalent of DANISH CARTOONS

i fear for your safety hunny
i strongly advise u to wear burkha henceforth

Keshi said...

~~Anand

ty!




~~Saby

lol burqa and I wont look good...And Aus is a very liberal country...no pretences..

Keshi.

saby said...

Salman Rushdie went into hiding in the UK

UK is a liberal cuntry too

Ekta said...

I dont get it!
A blog is a blog-its not a newspaper where thots and ideas need to be edited!! Its high time people understood and appreciated that!
I dont think I can ever relate to the term "politically correct language"!

burf said...

if anybody can make a chill-pill for harliners then i guess it might get more popular than viagra ;)

desperado said...

hey d blog is ur own personal space and no one can invade tht.so just keep being urself

:)

Die Muräne said...

@Saby: How can you blame Keshi for speaking out what she thinks, while you wrote this line in the comments:
"i dont tink his parents loved Murrane"? Please explain here.
But I'm happy to see in my LOG-Stats that you're one of the biggest fans of my blog. I knew you'd like it, Saby!

Keshi said...

~~Saby

Im no Salma Rushdie neither am I a person who punishes someone for speaking what they believe. If Im in danger for putting up that post, then that's proving everything I say abt muslim hardliners.
PPL who cant take healthy criticism live in a make-believe world.

And abuse is no freedom of speech...it's freedom of an uncivilised mind, as I said before. So no anoynomous (abuse) comments in this blog.




~~Ekta

thanks!

**A blog is a blog-its not a newspaper where thots and ideas need to be edited!!

true...and the fact that ppl get upset after reading some posts of mine need to be explained here...not in another place where I dun have the ability to even comment.

I dun care if it's a friend of mine or even my family...what's fair is fair and what's unfair is unfair.




~~Burf

lol can u plz make one?? plz plz plz...:)




~~Desperado

thats true...but I also keep in mind that i respect everyone when I put up a post. but how d u respect a fanatic who violates womens' rights?




~~Die_Murane

hey thanks! Saby is no big fan of mine either but he's WC in my blog...:) cos he speaks what he believes and I like honest ppl...even if he criticises me, as long as it's not abuse...and ppl should be able to take criticism w.o. taking it so personally.



btw the person who's leaving Anonymous comments in ppl's blogs is one person who abused me left right n centre in all places on the net for more than 2 yrs...he used profanity, racism and words beyond anyone's belief. He's an ardent fan of Sebia. So he takes any opp to come in his burqa and abuse me..lol like I care abt what such a dumb and frightened person without a name has to say.


Keshi.

Orikinla Osinachi. said...

Sebz, you should have written me a comment here, instead you went and wrote a huge judgmental post about me, and disabled comments too.
...............................
Well you said it.
Sebz disabled comments to prevent contrary opinions and views from readers. Very undemocratic. Very typical of what Sebz believes in.
And you call Sebz a friend?
May God help us all.

I mentioned in my comment on that your post that I have a girlfriend who is Muslim and till date I have not forced her to change her faith. Because, if you love someone, you will not enslave the person or muzzle the person and you will not regard the person as a second class citizen or inferior to you.

I still love her Hijab, burkha and incense and all. And gosh, she is still so sexy whenever she sways in her hijab and burka.
She has two children for another man and I still love her. And mind you Sex is not love.
............................
Keshi, thank God you are still kicking!
Your last "Ogbanje" post on "Grave Decisions" got me puzzled and worried. I prayed and wished you were not having any death wish.

Keep rocking!

Viva Forever!

God bless.

Boldnbeautiful said...

Hey gal, How are u?

Since sometime I have not read ur post. May be for some more time I may not read ur blog.

I was so disturbed sometimes. Dont laugh. Serious I am.

Why don't u post some funny post, So that I get guts to read ur post again.

U gimmi ur mail id, I will mail u. u can take my id from uttara.

ishita said...

we write what we believe in...and when we stop questioning ...we stop learning and growing...

it's a pity sum ppl can't think beyond what they've been brought up to believe in...be it right or wrong...

Keshi:)...u see no matter what faith a truly rational person will not misunderstand what u are trying to say...

religion i agree is a personal thing...

i still stand by what i have to say...why subjugate women in the name of religion...? and for heaven's sake...i mean this for every religion in this planet!!...!!

PRADEEP K. said...

Way to go Keshi!

You never insulted any religion. You simply stood up against a meaningless tradition, and the crime associated with it.

People tend to misread. You should not worry about that.

Anyway, if someone had a problem with your post, they should have written so in your comments, and invited an academic discussion, rather than slandering your name elsewhere. That is horrible.


Cheers Keshi!
Im with you on this one, girl.

Princess said...

You are really bold and I admire you for this quality of yours. You are straight forward in all aspects.

Will definetly go with your opinion.

Ghost Particle said...

it's admirable that you choose not to remove the blog. we dont have to back off because somepeople choose to follow false beliefs. If the true teachings of Islam or any religion is peace and love, then show peace and love. Dont say what you can wear and what you cannot. Thats it, thats the bottom line.

The American model preaches separation of church and state. That's how it should be, and thats what the whole world should practise.

When someone rapes and kill's women, when someone acuses women and then not let her have a chance for an equal law of hearing, of fairness, than dont expect the world to stand there and watch. This is the 21st century, and we will stop all this kind of behaviour.

The blog world will remain forever a bastion for freedom of speech. No matter what.

karmic_jay said...

You go girl! It's free speech, it's your blog and you say what you want. If people don't like it, they can try to debate ya on it, or they don't have to read. :)
Tha's free speech, things will often get said which one might not like, but that how it is.
I hate epople who can't get a handle an comment. Anon comments are just gutless.

:: The Protector :: said...

ATTITUDE!

take care!

Cheers!
:)

KL said...

You have the perfect and correct belief-system, Keshi; keep it up; we all stay silent too long and that is why the world is in such a horrible conditions.

Don't give it up because of how some people feels. If they feel anything, they are grown-ups and matured, they should let you know your feelings and discuss it in an adult-way.

Trée said...

Post like this and the one before it are why I love coming to your blog Keshi. When I see you post, I know I am seeing you and not a facade you are projecting to the world. Rawk on with being you. It's why I'm here.

SamY said...

may I suggest something lady? I'd say the tone of your post was a wee bit on the brash side ... n there is no reason whatsoever for you to have been otherwise :) ... but I have to admit the post was one-sided and not balanced

when 10 people talk ill of one person for his idiosyncracies ... he is bound to shed his anger and discontent ... coz it brings down the brand image

and just coz u'd be benevolent in accepting the grotesques of ur religion, doesn't mean everyone has to be so yielding ;) and enlightened :D

each individual lives in his own sphere of rules (right & wrong) and is judgemental of others by it ... depending on what percentage of this match, people group up

there are no arbitrators to draw a line on where freedom of speech ends and where it affects another begins

the funny part is all parties are advocating the same thing ... just that the choice of words / tone / angle of discussion have been different ;)

but do try n make your posts unbiased (not just on this one) ... more than for anyone else for you!!!

cheers

Wanderer said...

well keshi
U r absolutly rite i agree with u
We have freedom of speech and we can post our views
things may be rite or maybe taken in wrong sense
its u who decide wat is rite for urself and later ppl mite take it in a wrong sense regardless to say its their wish

if u will be fearful in life u will never get rid of that fear unless u fight against it!!

And its obvious isnt it that these practises are still prominent in some parts of the world while in the others they aint!

Wat wen someone made a cartoon of Prophet muhammad!
Wasnt that rebellious and WTF u just wrote ur views
U never had any intention for hurting someone!

done said...

Hello Keshi,
I started blogging when I was told it was like jounaling, and journaling is expressing all your thoughts down, that's why we are here to express. The difference between journaling on paper and blogging is that here people are reading your thoughts, and unfortionatly the human race feels the need to give their opinions. You have a carring heart to appologize, but there isn't no need too, because it's your thoughts and we should respect your thoughts if were going to sit at our computers to read them. Sorry it seems like you have had some sour comments, but lets face it, we'll get some, just don't take them to hearts. I myself have learned from reading your thoughts, so to me, you don't need to change a thing! Thanks for educating me:) Take care, Elisa:)

saby said...

Freedom of speech dont imply making DANISH CARTOONS of the prophet

India the cuntry, wid the second largest muslim population was the first cuntry to ban SATANIC VERSES

Keshi,
u wid 100 + comments has a tremendous responsibility and


since u have comment moderator on
u r also responsible for the comments from guys like Die Murrane

heyy Die Murrane
i dont wish u die

wasnt i who named u thus

The Phoenix said...

You can say whatever you want on your blog. If they want to debate or whatever your points on their own blog, that's good too.

We can all agree to disagree.

anup.777 said...

hmmm ... i'm among those who try to say what's on our mind, and at the same time tone it down just enough that no one is offended ... having said that, its impossible to please everyone ...

but that's just me ... this is ur space ... and u r entitled to write whatever u want, and not be (mis)judged for that ....

Jeevan said...

I agree, that this place (blog) is ours; we have all rights to write what ever we think. Reading or avoiding is their wish; we can’t compel them to read my blog. No one can enter on others freedom of which dress to wear, but the dress should not be ugliness, because it will send others to difficulty situation. Am I right or wrong?

Sujit said...

Well relly don't know. I though blog is suposed to be a private to speak out what you like and do not like. If some like ot clarify things to you, youshould be most welcome.. Its a one-one relation kind. why should one post about another post in some other post??... is this a techinical journal publication contest??..

Pri said...

wayy to go gal!...i needed to hear sumthin strong like tht frm u...i was beginnin to get the feelin tht ppl were takin ur "goodness" for granted...
a blog is ur space n u hav a right to say wht u feel bout sumthin as long as its not outrite rude or specifically offending...sigh! its a diff thing tht some ppl do even tht..but thn again...its their opinion n u cant stop thm from givin it...
besides i dint find ur post hurtful at all...but thn dunno...mebe some ppl did...!!!
guess as anand rightly put it " u cant please thm all" ---n its NOT worth feelin guilty bout it whn u dint even intend to cause hurt
tk care ...

Contented said...

Awww...such a strong straight forward attitude and strength to smile back at critics have to be learnt only from you...:)

One is free and only be free if he/she risks to say what he/she believes in and feels about Life. I have a quote on my blog which strongly supports your willingness to risk in saying what you feel...:)

sajini said...

Well. i enjoy reading your blog. Keep writing what's on your mind girl!!!

snazzy said...

I am no religious guy (that would be an understatement), but the topic is so emotion-laden that there's never a meaningful discussion. It has less specifics and a lot of gray-area and so open to interpretation.

Having said that, I am sure why it cannot be discussed. Why is it such a taboo? Friends get all worked up and everyone feels fragmented and so on.

I think we are in the day and age when we need to be secure about ourselves to be able to discuss openly and without malice.

I am not at all perturbed by the fact that you brought it up in the place. In fact I find it challenging. Why can't people simply state that they disagree (and why) and move on.

This is a discussion. Not a proclamation or a call for a religious movement.

So, lets chill and get all twisted and turned over it.

Snazzy....

snazzy said...

I am no religious guy (that would be an understatement), but the topic is so emotion-laden that there's never a meaningful discussion. It has less specifics and a lot of gray-area and so open to interpretation.

Having said that, I am sure why it cannot be discussed. Why is it such a taboo? Friends get all worked up and everyone feels fragmented and so on.

I think we are in the day and age when we need to be secure about ourselves to be able to discuss openly and without malice.

I am not at all perturbed by the fact that you brought it up in the place. In fact I find it challenging. Why can't people simply state that they disagree (and why) and move on?

This is a discussion. Not a proclamation or a call for a religious movement.

So, lets chill and not get all twisted and turned over it.

Snazzy....

Agarwaen Mormegil said...

Be politically incorrect. That's the way..hehe...btw, what happened to that Muslim woman who's father-in-law raped her is absolutelu horrendous.
Why do our country doesnt have a uniform civil code is beyond me. Still we're nlindly following the age-old Divide and Rule policy of the British colonialists.
And Islam doesn't tell to oppress women. the hardliner foolish Islamic clerics interpret the Koran in a crooked way.

Jo said...

Oh yeah! The same is the policy I keep in my blog too!! :-)

Deepali said...

I did live in the middle east actually and I'm writing this after reading Sebia's blog post.

While this isn't a personal attack, what Sebia forgot[ or maybe she doesn't know?] to mention was that while places like Dubai [not the entire country mind you and I can't speak for Oman and Bahrain] do not have strict dress codes so to say moral policing does take place.
How?
Harrassment. Locals, visiting Saudis etc. etc. - so yes the law may not prohibit it but this is a mindset of the society that needs to be changed. Why are women/girls who don't wear what is decent according to Islamic standards asked questions like "what is their price"?
I'm not talking about flimsy clothing or walking around in bikini tops. I'm talking about below the knee dresses worn with modest tops and such which is quite normal in many parts of the world.

And I understand your disappointment Keshi. Having lived there myself, I was disappointed by the lack of open discussions without silly name-calling like 'blasphemy' and 'offending religious beliefs'. Nonsense. But dress codes are hardly the issue.

People need to grow a thicker skin- a skin actually. Discussing issues in a civil manner shouldn't let one feel their faith is threatened - that only reflects the believer's insecurity and if there is none then why get incensed?

Again let me clarify this isn't directed at Sebia but all those people who find themselves indignant at the slighest disagreement over religious beliefs. Without healthy debates and discussions we are closing doors that might enable us to not only listen to other people's point of views but have out own heard.

Lastly, I'm glad you've stuck to your words. A few Muslim girls whom I was friendly with stopped talking to me after they read one of my posts on the Danish cartoons, despite my having not engaged in any name calling and such. They stopped talking simply because I didn't agree with their justification of the protests and deaths worldwide.

So I realize it isn't very easy but well, you can't please everyone.

I've written a long comment as it is- sowwie!

Cheers!

Deepali

sittingnut said...

heyy mate :-)

there was nothing wrong whatsoever with your earlier post.

of course others are free to express their opinion.
from what i read jackal seems to have (as you said) misunderstood what you were saying. which is curios bc your post is clear and as always well written.
-
ppl are free to do whatever they want as long as they don't interfere with others right to do the same.

anyone objecting to this should not express it in the internet (or anywhere else for that matter)and hope to win the argument. they will eventually argue(if they have the courage to argue that is many just close comments ) themselves into a corner from which they can come out only in the company of fascists, communists, fanatics, bigots, and other intolerant losers.

it always great to have someone like you speaking up for hman rights and tolerance :-)

all ppl who hope to live in and love freedom, and achieve their full potential as human beings for themselves and others should speak up for tolerance and human rights and resist ppl who are intolerant and curtail rights.

-
If all of the good muslims out there like you, stopped praising these hardliners and for once stood up for human rights, then we might not have so many women suffering in silence.

you are right there too but i have an idea ppl will misunderstand that statement too.
-

hope you are having a great day :-)
hugggz

Keshi said...

~~Orikinla_Osinachi

heyyy mate, thanks!

**Very typical of what Sebz believes in. And you call Sebz a friend?

Well I thought she was a friend...but the fact that she couldnt discuss this openly without getting so upset over it and calling me biased and prejudiced and what-not, makes me realise not everyone is rational and not everyone is a friend here...if she calls herself a friend of mine, she could have discussed it here or thru email...why go write a whole post abt me? not that I felt bad abt any of that cos I dun believe anything she said abt me, but the fact that she cant talk openly abt this without making a big fuss just put me off...thats it.

Im ok man, dun worry, I wont die yet..hehehe...and THANK U!





~~BoldNBeautiful

hey Im pretty good thanks!

**Since sometime I have not read ur post. May be for some more time I may not read ur blog.

Its ok...it's totally upt to u :) But what disturbed u?


**Why don't u post some funny post, So that I get guts to read ur post again.

hehehe BnB...what d u mean? I should be someone else just to make the world laugh? :) Im sorry babes, I just write whatever I feel like here...it could be funny, angry, emotional, happy...anything at all...thats me BnB...I cant be someone else just so that ppl CAN read my posts...I hope u know what I mean and I dun meant to be rude to u - Im being honest here...I thought u always knew me but...even after all this time u still seem not to know me?

Anyways I'll get ur email from Uttsy...we can talk then ok :) huggggggz!




~~Ishita

heyy Ish hows u :)

**and when we stop questioning ...we stop learning and growing...

so true...and na I wont stop questioning...this is not intolerance of any faith...it's intolerance of cruelty in the name of faith...


**it's a pity sum ppl can't think beyond what they've been brought up to believe in...be it right or wrong...

YES! It's really sad! And the moment someone questions their practices in a civil manner or not, they get so upset..it's not doing any good for what they call themselves to be...


**Keshi:)...u see no matter what faith a truly rational person will not misunderstand what u are trying to say...

thanks for that Ish, I agree with u 100%. If someone came to me and said that the Hindu extremists r so violent and in the wrong, I'd agree with them...that's being UNBIASED isnt it?


**i still stand by what i have to say...why subjugate women in the name of religion...? and for heaven's sake...i mean this for every religion in this planet!!...!!

u r 100% correct...every religion, every race, every faith have some sort of discrimination towards women...but we cant deny that it's the muslim women of fanatics who get the worst treatment (whether they realise this or not) compared to rest of the women in the world...ppl should stop being in denial and have some self-confidence to speak up for once!

Thanks Ish u made perfect sense!


Keshi.

icyblue said...

Well... our blog is our blog. It is our own space and we have the right and freedom to write what we want. If ppl dont like it, they should just stop visiting! Not make a fuss over it!

Be bold always and write what u feel :)

:P fuzzbox said...

Way to hold your ground. You said nothing wrong. If radicals disagree that is their problem.

Keshi said...

~~Pradeep

hey mate hows u? all ok now, no more wierd dreams?


**Anyway, if someone had a problem with your post, they should have written so in your comments, and invited an academic discussion, rather than slandering your name elsewhere.

Slandering my name has been a daily practise for one of Sebia's anonymous friends for the past 2years..he's the one who's covering himself when he speaks and leaves abuse comments ard me all over. He did this for a while, then cloned me and left abuse/racist comments using my Id, and now claims to be soooo holy...lol what a joker this guy is.
Yes, I didnt expect Sebz to react this way...but as with anything else in this world, there r always ppl who don't like an open and honest conversation - who takes things very personal etc. So let her be. Im not angry...but Im truly disappointed with her. She claims to be my friend...but I cant see it.





~~Aizwaikcha

thans girl! :)




~~Ghost_Particle

heyy mate thanks!

** If the true teachings of Islam or any religion is peace and love, then show peace and love.

Spot on! And ty for saying it out loud w.o. any fear!


**This is the 21st century, and we will stop all this kind of behaviour.

yes u r right...we were waiting and waiting for peace to come...and now it seems it's all getting worse than b4...cos ppl r too scared to speak out...and have no guts!

Ty for being who u really r...I admire ur thinking.




~~Karmic_Jay

thanks mate and I agree with ya 100%.

**I hate epople who can't get a handle an comment. Anon comments are just gutless

lol these r the gutless losers who either hides and comments, or clones other Ids...how pathetic r they? It shows that they themselves doubt the credibility of their own speech. Sickos, thats all.

Thanks and u have great day Jay :)


Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Vishnu

thanks :)




~~KL

Hi there KL :)

**we all stay silent too long and that is why the world is in such a horrible conditions.

true...cos ppl think that if they r safe, then all's well and they dun care what happens to the rest...all they wanna be is SAFE and it's terribly selfish. Speak up if u feel something is not right...why fear the truth??


**Don't give it up because of how some people feels. If they feel anything, they are grown-ups and matured, they should let you know your feelings and discuss it in an adult-way.

thanks and na I wont give up being me...just like they wont give up being so self-righteous :)

Thanks KL u have a good day!




~~Tre

thanks mate...

**When I see you post, I know I am seeing you and not a facade you are projecting to the world.

ty...
why wud I just please the world...whats in it for me than cheating my own thoughts...

have a good day mate!




~~Samy

I agree that different ppl take it differently...Im not stupid not to know that :) but did anything I say sound unbiased? WHY and HOW?

**but do try n make your posts unbiased (not just on this one) ... more than for anyone else for you!!!

why should I 'try' to be something else that Im not? However I dun believe I was unbiased in any of my posts...point me one plz...:)
besides...unbiased is not ME...unbiased is the one who gets upset over civil questions such as these...just cos they dun wanna question their faith at all and wouldnt tolerate anyone who does!


Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Wanderer

hey Wandy thanks!

**if u will be fearful in life u will never get rid of that fear unless u fight against it!!

So true! Fear ur fear and u will be in a closet all ur life...


**And its obvious isnt it that these practises are still prominent in some parts of the world while in the others they aint!

It is not only present but the fact that Islamic hardliners r fast growing is a real worry...


**wen someone made a cartoon of Prophet muhammad!Wasnt that rebellious

I was LMAO...it was a bloody joke for Christsakes! One should be able to laugh too if he knows his faith truthfully...instead they has banners that said 'Kill anybody who speaks against Islam'...??

The Afghans brought down huge statue of Buddha..did the Buddhist throw a war on it? Not even for an hour. Not even a word.


**and WTF u just wrote ur views
U never had any intention for hurting someone!

Exactly! I will speak and I shall continue to do so as long as I live...if ppl can be so dominating, why cant we speak? Im not scared of the insecure ones mate :) thanks!





~~Elisa

ur a sweet girl Elisa...and a vey open and honest person too...thanks for that, luv ya n hugggggggggz!




~~Saby

*Freedom of speech dont imply making DANISH CARTOONS of the prophet

Saby, freedom of speech is freedom speech...did they abuse the Prophet in it? I dun think so. It was a joke..just a joke. What abt the Afghans bringing down Buddha's statues a couple of years ago? Did the Buddhist commit suicide for this or even throw a tantrum? NO! Freedom of Actions speaks alot too...


**India the cuntry, wid the second largest muslim population was the first cuntry to ban SATANIC VERSES

And??


**Keshi,
u wid 100 + comments has a tremendous responsibility and

no I dun...it's my personal space and I dun hold responsibilty if ppl dun like my thoughts...Im not a politician who runs a govt. If no one visits me tomorrow, I'll still blog...these r my personal thoughts and to hell with the world.


Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~The_Phoenix

thanks mate!

**We can all agree to disagree.

Spot on!




~~Anup.777

hey Anup hows u?

** i'm among those who try to say what's on our mind, and at the same time tone it down just enough that no one is offended

yep...what I dun u'stand is how my post abt the fanatic muslims have affected few good muslims...




~~Jeevan

** Reading or avoiding is their wish;

Exactly!

Im not inviting anyone here...read at ur own peril or if u think it's gonna blow ur conscience, then leave.




~~Sujit

hey Sujit thanks!

** why should one post about another post in some other post??...

true..this is not a competition...rather a serious topic..and if ppl cant discuss it right here and openly, then when will that happen? And where? At home in the dinner table where everyone agrees with u?



Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Pri

hey thanks Pri!

**u hav a right to say wht u feel bout sumthin as long as its not outrite rude or specifically offending..

Yes! And I dun think I was rude to anyone...my Qs to Sebz is:

1.Is she a burqa-wearing Muslim girl who's punished if she doesnt wear it?

OR

2. Is she someone who supports the fanatics who punish girls who dun wear it?

If NO is the ans to both of these Qs then why get hurt by my post? Cos my post was abt SUCH fanatcis and no one else!


** u cant please thm all" ---n its NOT worth feelin guilty bout it whn u dint even intend to cause hurt

yep..and I know that not everyone's out to please me either...but Im cool with it, so why cant they be...

Thanks Pri!





~~Contented

hey mate :)

**One is free and only be free if he/she risks to say what he/she believes in and feels about Life.

Spot on and thanks! I dun care...even if it's my faith and I dun like something abt it, I tell my mum it's so wrong...I dun fear the truth.




~~Sajini

hey thanks Sajini :)




Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Snazzy

Snazzzo hugggggggggz! So good to see ya :)


**but the topic is so emotion-laden that there's never a meaningful discussion. It has less specifics and a lot of gray-area and so open to interpretation.

Agreed...but tell me, would my post affect the good muslims, who dun punish their women?


**Having said that, I am sure why it cannot be discussed. Why is it such a taboo? Friends get all worked up and everyone feels fragmented and so on.

SO TRUE! WHY CANT WE SPEAK? WHY CANT WE QUESTION AT ALL? WHY DO PPL GET SO IRRITATED BY SIMPLE Qs? And if we r true friends, why misjudge than talk here openly?


**I think we are in the day and age when we need to be secure about ourselves to be able to discuss openly and without malice.

Spot on! And Im not in some old age not to open my mouth..


**I am not at all perturbed by the fact that you brought it up in the place. In fact I find it challenging. Why can't people simply state that they disagree (and why) and move on.

Exactly! Sebzz could have just told me that she disagree with me..instead of crying out so loud calling me prejudiced. That's strong defense of beliefs and thats exactly what I was talking abt. If we respect each others' faiths then we should be able to explain abt our faiths to others w.o. feeling so offended.


**This is a discussion. Not a proclamation or a call for a religious movement.

Exaclty...and I guess alot of ppl here were smart enough to get that.


**So, lets chill and get all twisted and turned over it.

Ty Snazzy...u made perfect sense!


Keshi.

ArChaNa said...

I just read your post on Whisper's of a veil Keshi

Now this Q is for for the person who was hurt.

was there anything pertained to religion??

the post was all about the freedom and respect for WOMAN.

If a woman likes to wear a hijab or a burkha, its her WILL and I RESPECT it. But if they are forced..?! is it still considered as her will??

I'm not saying that ONLY muslim women are being treated that way, damn! every women on earth is treated the same manner.

a husband torchering his wife , he married her 'coz according to his astorlogy or whatever said that if he marries this particular women, she will bring good luck and wealth. He didn't get both , so he torchered for 1 year and then gave divorce


Lastly, its our personal blog.. this is the space where we pen down our thoughts. don't we?

Keshi said...

~~Aragorn

hey WC and thanks!

**And Islam doesn't tell to oppress women. the hardliner foolish Islamic clerics interpret the Koran in a crooked way.

Exactly! And thats why I cant u'stand why a good muslim would get offended by that post??





~~Jo

hey good on ya!




~~Dee

Hey Dee long time and thanks for dropping by this post and putting some very valid and interesting points forward...


**While this isn't a personal attack, what Sebia forgot[ or maybe she doesn't know?] to mention was that while places like Dubai [not the entire country mind you and I can't speak for Oman and Bahrain] do not have strict dress codes so to say moral policing does take place.

ty for that info...we all need to know this.


**How?
Harrassment. Locals, visiting Saudis etc. etc. - so yes the law may not prohibit it but this is a mindset of the society that needs to be changed.

Ty for that piece of info too..and yes the mindset has to be changed!


**Why are women/girls who don't wear what is decent according to Islamic standards asked questions like "what is their price"?

thats the lowest form of all judgements...to judge someone from clothes they wear and that too decent ones.


**I'm not talking about flimsy clothing or walking around in bikini tops. I'm talking about below the knee dresses worn with modest tops and such which is quite normal in many parts of the world.

unbelievable!


**And I understand your disappointment Keshi. Having lived there myself, I was disappointed by the lack of open discussions without silly name-calling like 'blasphemy' and 'offending religious beliefs'. Nonsense. But dress codes are hardly the issue.

Yes..the moment we question them, they r sooo offended... what abt the on-going violations of womens' rights...? What abt those offenses?


**People need to grow a thicker skin- a skin actually. Discussing issues in a civil manner shouldn't let one feel their faith is threatened - that only reflects the believer's insecurity and if there is none then why get incensed?

SPOT ON Dee! I say the same. Why get upset? Why cant we talk openly and honestly and then we dun agree, lets just agree to disagree. Im not right all the time and no one else is either. But we have to be able to debate without feeling threatened!


**Again let me clarify this isn't directed at Sebia but all those people who find themselves indignant at the slighest disagreement over religious beliefs. Without healthy debates and discussions we are closing doors that might enable us to not only listen to other people's point of views but have out own heard.

U said it the BEST Dee! Ty for being so honest and open. U think exactly like I do...and Im so glad that someone who lived in ME came out saying this. And yes this is not a personal attack against Sebzz, this for all of us...for all those who fear to speak up or argue healthily w.o. being threatenened and upset.


**Lastly, I'm glad you've stuck to your words. A few Muslim girls whom I was friendly with stopped talking to me after they read one of my posts on the Danish cartoons, despite my having not engaged in any name calling and such. They stopped talking simply because I didn't agree with their justification of the protests and deaths worldwide.

Well good for them and good for u...to stop associating a friend just cos she's got different views (and u were not abusive), is their loss...let them continue in ignorance.

think abt this...The Afghans destroyed statues of Buddha a couple of years ago...no Buddhists protested. The danish cartoons were received with so much protest and hatred...

Moral of the examples: Actions speak louder than words or any dress code for that matter.

Thanks Dee!

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Sittingnut

hey thanks and ur right...Jackal has misunderstood the point of my post and so has Sebzz...but its ok..I cant do anything abt that.


**anyone objecting to this should not express it in the internet (or anywhere else for that matter)and hope to win the argument

ur right...no point closing comments...that kinda tells me that Sebz dun wanna hear anyone else's opinion. I say internet is the ideal place to get real and honest answers...cos ppl r very open here and quite honest than in real...cos no one knows ur identity etc so they speak up more than they wud face to face...so its best to have comments open...


**you are right there too but i have an idea ppl will misunderstand that statement too.

hehe do I care...:)

Thanks Sittingnut n u have a great day!

Keshi.

lil _kath said...

..we have Freedom of Speech..and this is your space,you're just writing what's on your mind so that's it.
...it's their choice to read or not,everybody can comment and its good to have healthy debate of course to know each others thoughts..and learned from it too.

... we simply can't please everybody yaar..so do whatever you love to do,stick to it and enjoy!

way to go girl!

-kathy-

Keshi said...

~~Icy_Blue

Thanks Icy :)





~~Fuzzbox

**Way to hold your ground. You said nothing wrong. If radicals disagree that is their problem.

Yes, we can agree to disagree but I find it hard to u'stand ppl who take things so personally and dun allow others to discuss it openly either.

thanks mate!

Rex Venom said...

You should always truly speak you mind. Sure, maybe sometimes we must choose carefully how we say things to be polite, but when you are writing your thoughts out, sharing with your readers, the more sincere your words the better! Your post was great.
Rock on!

Keshi said...

~~Archie

thank God there's someone who got the correct substance of that post so well! Spot on Archie!

**was there anything pertained to religion??
the post was all about the freedom and respect for WOMAN.

Very well said, ty!


**If a woman likes to wear a hijab or a burkha, its her WILL and I RESPECT it. But if they are forced..?! is it still considered as her will??

Exactly what my point was!


**I'm not saying that ONLY muslim women are being treated that way, damn! every women on earth is treated the same manner.

Agreed...100%.


**He didn't get both , so he torchered for 1 year and then gave divorce

thats terrible!


**Lastly, its our personal blog.. this is the space where we pen down our thoughts. don't we?

TY for being U! Luv ya girl!

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Lil_Kath

hey Kath thanks for the encouragement!

yep...Im not here to please everyone..and if they dun like it, too bad...lets just agree to disagree instead of feeling so angry and upset over it. ppl need to be BE CIVIL for a change...this world needs a rest from Intolerance.

Hugggggggz Kath!
Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Rex_Venom

hey Rex thanks!

**Sure, maybe sometimes we must choose carefully how we say things to be polite, but when you are writing your thoughts out, sharing with your readers, the more sincere your words the better!

true...and there's no way I can talk so serenely abt fanatics, is there :)


Keshi.

Tarun said...

it's a long post, will read later...seems interesting..now-a-days very busy

Tanvi said...

keshi maybe u just need to realize how hurt she was by ur post and by the comments that were posted on ur blog..like u said everyone has freedom of speech..n she wrote wut she believed in

u dont really have to call it"crying out loud"..u noe keshi for someone who just wrote this post talkin bout how people have their freedom of speech...maybe u should've taken that into consideration wen u looked at sebia's post..im not sayin u cant express ur views..if ur gonna express ur views then yes go ahead wit it..but u need to realize that some ppl r gonna be hurt n they mite choose to express it in their own blog rather than commenting among hundereds of people out here..

im sorrie if this hurts u but u noe wut? u should realize that it hurt her n i noe ur gonna say that u do realize it...but if u can express ur views by writing a post..so can she. period.

Keshi said...

~~Tarun

no probs Tarun :)

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~~~Tanvi

**like u said everyone has freedom of speech..n she wrote wut she believed in


agreed 100%! I didnt say that she shouldnt have done it...but why isnt she allowing comments there??

And Tanvi, u should know by now that Im not here to please anyone...if she's hurt then think abt all the women who r really hurt by all this..who r seriously affected by these silly practices?


Keshi.

Tanvi said...

keshi ur here to talk about ur opinions and how u feel..and thatz exactly wut sebs did too...
although u never said that she shouldnt have done it..in an indirect way that was obvious the way ur talkin bout her..n im not defendin her just cuz im really close wit her or nethin..thatz besides the point

all im sayin is u posted stuff that u believed in..and she posted her opinion..and the people who are commenting here don't reallie noe wut sebz felt do they? how can they go on n talk shit bout her..u noe keshi i think i've known u the longest among all the people here..besides 4u..and i really don't think this was necessary..if u reall y think she should've talked to u before postin that..don't u think u could've done the same thing keshi? it's really easy to talk about people wen u don't noe wutz goin on..n i totally respect ur opinion but i respect her opinion too

Keshi said...

~~Tanvi

Tanvi I dunno what it is but it seems u never u'stand me..but thats ok.

Anywways d u know what our friendship was like? Me and Sebzz? U maybe 'very' close to her so I can see that u feel for her. But Sebz wasnt so close to me and we wer not even in touch for a long time. Do I have to ask her permission to post whatever I want to post here? Tanvi, sorry but u dun mae sense to me.

And the fact the she's not allowing comments for that post speaks for itself...she doesnt wanna hear anything but her point of view. And u r conveniently avoiding that fact just cos u r her friend!

Thanks anyways...u too can ditch me Tanvi, I wont be surprised or sad :) Like I said so many times here, Im not out to please everyone and Sebia was not even kn my mind when I wrote that post...cos she isnt fanatic is she?

Keshi.

Tanvi said...

yea keshi..i guess i never understood u then did i? wenever i try to tell u somethin u have to disagree wit me n start talkin bout somethin totally different..SO WUT IF she din allow comments? how the hell does that make a difference? she didnt want people to talk about her relegion the way they did here..n im not necessarily sayin they all talked shit bout it or nethin..im just sayin how she felt..n if i dun make sense to u keshi then well i dunoe wut to say to u..i really thought u would care to listen to wut i have to say n im not really sayin this cuz sebz is my good frnd..ur a good frnd too keshi..u noe u've been a good frnd to me..but if u really wanna end the friendship over this then well aite..im sorrie if i said nethin to hurt u..i was just tryin to express my opinion...as the title of ur post says..i have every right to do that..im sorrie if i didnt make much sense to u .. i really am..bye

uttara said...

keshi ...

can u do me a favour .. just cut this crap now .... plss.... cos this is going to be endless n i think u r gonna screw ur n others brains too ..
( nothing personal)
cos this topic is a sensitive issue . one may or may not like it .. some may or may not take it personally ...

so y u going on arguing with no end to it ????
cant u leave it at it???

where there are ppl there is going to be emotions / discussions/ argument ...

one should know wer to draw a line...

so just call it off now keshi ...
u have a nice day
HUGGGZZZZ

Keshi said...

~~Tanvi

take a chill pill...u r so hype now :) did I say I want to end the friendship? NO. I doubted that u might want to..cos in ur last comment u said:

**u noe keshi i think i've known u the longest among all the people here..besides 4u..and i really don't think this was necessary

why should NV and all this come into this?

anyways Tanvi...u choose who ur friends r...I pay the price for being honest...Im sorry Im not here to butter my friends or keep em all 'satisfied' and 'unhurt'...if something I say hurt u and Sebz, then so be it...and plz rem that post wasnt abt Sebz..why has she taken it so personally!

Anyways...bye if that's a bye from u. U fail to see me...but u succeed in seeing Sebia. It's a choice u made.

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Uttara

so what u want me to do? Live like a puppet trying to make everyone happy?

Keshi.

Keshi said...

Those who r interested please read Fuzzbox's latest post on Political Correctness. Excellent stuff!


http://blugstuff.blogspot.com/2006/04/looking-back-at-political-correctness.html


Keshi.

Keshi said...

I'd like to highlight this from Fuzz's latest post:


*****This lesson in political correctness at a young age taught me three very valuable lessons.

1) No matter what you say, if you speak your mind, someone will be upset by it.
2) Never back down from the truth.
3) Always be ready to pay the price for what you believe.

I am sorry that some are offended by things that I have said or will say in the future. I am sorry that they took it the wrong way. What I am not sorry for is the meaning behind the words and that is something I will not back down from.



Thanks Fuzz for those golden words!

Keshi.

Tanvi said...

nv din come into nethin..i just said he noes u longer than me n yea noe u longer than neone else here..but ANYWAYS..
i said i respect ur opinion keshi..i never said i dun see ur point of view..n no im not here to end ne friendships..i jsut came here to tell u how i felt..well yea so anyways..i dun fail to see wut u mean..but someone had to defend sebz here rite? n neways i wasnt the one who said bye..u said 'u can ditch me too tanvi..i wont be sad/surprised' im not here to ditch neone..im here to express my thoughts..n maybe instead of tellin me that im defendin sebz juz for the sake of it..u should really talk to her bout how she felt

Dawn....सेहर said...

I always get in trouble for speaking the truth and that too upfront straight :)

But you know what...I prefer that rather being phony...or being two faced!!!

Keshi all I will say is..be urself...rest is the world to figure out :)

Cheers

Keshi said...

Tanvi how d u expect me to talk to her? I dunno her YM anymore (as I dun chat on YM for a long time now) and she doesnt allow comments in that post?? Why r u always pointing fingers at me??

FORGET IT!

keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Dawn

Thanks Dawn!

I will never sell my soul not even for my blood.

Keshi.

uttara said...

no i never said that .. but one should let things go if u know thta u r screwing up ur brains ...


keshi & Tanvi ...

i think u r acting like a kids now ...

u have discussion n agruments in best of best friends man ... can a topic really get u apart?????

i guess u both r matured enuf .....

is ur frindship so light that u both cant take it any longer .. come on !!!

**Thanks anyways...u too can ditch me Tanvi, I wont be surprised or sad :)
keshi u being a frnd of tanvi is shown ...n we all knw .. u cant doubt her emotions towards u n provoke her .... NOT DONE ...



tanvi i donno u vey well ..... am sorry if am tying to interrupt here...
but u too cqant just end things arbruptly ... there is always a mid point ...

Keshi said...

Tanvi lets face it...I havent been in touch with Sebz for such a long time..I dunno any contacts of her's other than her blog...we were not even talking thru emails...never. So u expect me to talk to her, get permission from her b4 posting...?? whats all this? Do I depend on Sebz'for everything in my life? U may have been in touch with her almost everyday but the last I spoke to Sebz on YM may have been a good year and a half...and it seems that she doesnt comment in my blog either...so why the sudden close r'ship definitions? Do I have to be so obliged just cos I used to know her in IT? Besides this post wasnt abt Sebz for godsakes! It was abtthe fanatics...so why is she so hurt? Why cant u ans that?

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Uttara

My brains dun get screwed up from this kinda thing...it's them who r affected. I stand strong by my words.

It seems Tanvi is so biased and they r calling me biased??? That post wasnt abt Sebz, so why is she hurt? If I wrote a post abt Hindu extremists, wud u be so upset Uttsy? I bet u wont. Cos Ur not an extremist...simple as that!

Keshi.

Tanvi said...

keshi i haev answered..the only reason she is so hurt is because she hates trash talk about her relegion..maybe ur not that way..maybe it wont really effect u if someone talked bout hinduism that way..but it does to her..itz close to her n it offended her..thatz all im tryna say keshi

uttara..im not here to act like a kid..im here to express a different opinion on things..i dun wanna fight i just wanna make her see a different side to it..i noe u dont noe me well but keshi does..n she noes i wont talk about sebz like that juz cuz shez a good frnd..im talkin bout her cuz i think noone really took into account the way she felt..n i guess that really ticked me off..i din come here to have an argument or to end nethin

Tanvi said...

now ur calling me biased keshi..all i said was that she has every right to express ur opinion...i dun think im being biased here..as i said itz a different perspective n maybe u need to learn about seeing things from different point of views

maybe uttara wont be upset if neone talked bout hindus..but people are different..sebz was hurt..live wit it..not everyone has to be like u

Tanvi said...

u noe wut keshi .. we will never agree on nethin..so letz juz leave it..im sorrie i tried talkin to u about it..im not being biased..so letz just end this argument rite here cuz u have ur opinions i have mine..

Keshi said...

~~Tanvi

u lost the plot girl...who trashed her religion? did u ever read the post properly? Plz get ur facts right abt the post b4 pointing ur fingers at me.

I rest this argument with u...cos u dun seem to get the point of that post and it's not point going on and on abt it.

Thanks!
Keshi.

uttara said...

to be frank am not an extremist ...

**I stand strong by my words.

so cut it short .... (u know wat i mean ???)

Keshi said...

Funny how u keep saying u respect my opinion and then keep saying Sebia is hurt...

yeah lets just stop it.

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Uttara

thanks!

Keshi.

Tanvi said...

keshi u just seem to take some things n turn it all around..u noe wut screw it..i dun wanna talk to u bout it nemore..respectin ur opinion doesnt mean that i dun care about how sebia feels..so u noe wut just forget it.

as for the post...i did get my facts right n there were some things in that post that were offensive..again..maybe not to u but maybe to some people

so just forget it cuz u just want to stick with wut u think

uttara said...

tanvi ...

i know u dont wanna end up anyhting ...

:)

Vivhyd said...

Keshi.. theres more to a muslim than the "Veil" .. for every afghan or saudi muslim with a veil u have a sania mirza or any other.. freedom of speech is ofcourse something of our right esp in a democracy.. noone will disagree with that. but the way we put it shdnt hurt anyone.. if u feel u have stated in the rite manner.. then u shdnt care if still it bothers ppl cos u cant please everyone.. esp with controversial topics u expect some stick anyway

uttara said...

keshi ..

:)

uttara said...

keshiiiiiiiii


new post ...

Keshi said...

~~Tanvi

**there were some things in that post that were offensive..

why dun u say what it is?

**again..maybe not to u but maybe to some people

say it hurt someone...so what can I do abt it? That post wasnt for good muslims so I cant see why it should hurt a good muslim...and if it did hurt someone, Im sorry I cant take my words back either. Cos just as much as u believe in what u say, I believe in what I say.


**so just forget it cuz u just want to stick with wut u think

Yes I do and thanks for understanding that. For the record, 90% of my commentors agreed with me and idnt think I hurt any good muslims...

Anyways plz, just lets stop it. U cant see my point and I cant se eur's, and it's a pointless ranting going on between us. Lets just agree to disagree!

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Vivhyd

Thanks and I believe I didnt hurt anyone but fanatics out there. And I cant help that if it blew their conscience.




~~Uttara

:)

Keshi.

Sujit said...

he he.. who said at dinner table everyone agrees... it highly depends on the diminant member of the family.. other just give due to dominance.. But.. here no one dominates anyone.. we argue to come to a conclusion and the argument can go as length as possible!!

Keshi said...

~~Sujit

hehe Sujit :) what I meant by the dinner table example is usually the one family agrees on moral issues...cos they have one belief system. But on the Internet there's no such bias...cos we come from various backgrounds and beliefs :)

Why I said that was cos Sebzz said that she's not someone who gets adrenaline rush from talking abt religions on the net...i.o.w. she meant that I am someone like that.


Keshi.

tulipspeaks said...

this thing always happen to me in forums..now its happening in bloggies too eh?

looks like every medium of communication is prone to create mis-understanding btwn us..

as what i understood.. ur post only meant to question the rights men have to 'veil' the muslim women in the name of religion. thats about it. and thats how i see it.

of course, everything we utter or everything we write has potential to be mis-understood. and no matter how hard we try, no matter how much we explain, its not going to help. especially once the person made up his/her mind about it.

let me share this story with u:

a poor guy went to the king and complained that everyone around him is gossiping about him, making fun of him and watching him all the time. The king said he can help him provided the poor guy willing to hold a container filled with oil and walk circling his village. But its a task the guy must accomplish, failing which he'll beheaded. He took up the challenge and walked with the container on his hand, ignoring curious villagers. In the end, he reached the palace. The king then asked him "did u notice any villagers laughing at u?". The poor fella said "no i didnt. i was so concern abt the oil. its my life at stake". The king laughed "This is help i wanted to give u. Its ur life, its ur call. what u care about others?"

Got my point, honey?


=am000nie=

Keshi said...

~~Amutha

Thanks Amu muahhhhhh! That is my point too and that was a brilliant example, ty!


** post only meant to question the rights men have to 'veil' the muslim women in the name of religion. thats about it. and thats how i see it.

Yes! And why cant someone so sensible as Sebz u'stand this? Doesnt matter. I know that many dun like their faiths questioned.

Thanks Amu!


Keshi.

southpaw said...

A simple thought which was supposed to be debated in a healthy way and a misunderstanding which cud hv been solved by one on one email, has turned out to be such a massive disaster, anyways lets hope it ends in a healthy way.

Deepali said...

Keshi someday, I have hope we will see that happen :)

praveen said...

keep up the good work hunny

i did understand the gist of ur post and i truly agree with you..living in a muslim dominated country, i've seen oppression personally and i do feel sorry for them at times..

i feel bad that sebia misinterpreted the message..but she should hv posted it in here...she does afterall have the freedom to speak up..something that she did not utilize to her benefit

btw, to mr.anonymous in jackal's post...if you'de like to say something pls come out in the open to ssay it boldly...pls do not hide like a coward..you are also entitled to the freedom of speech as long as you do not overdue it to make it an abuse..

Keshi said...

~~Southpaw

hey South I cant comment in ur lj:( It says my IP was blocked lol! ??



**A simple thought which was supposed to be debated in a healthy way and a misunderstanding which cud hv been solved by one on one email, has turned out to be such a massive disaster, anyways lets hope it ends in a healthy way.

So true!
Isnt this what happens in the real world too? Simple Qs end up in bloodshed...what a shame that ppl cant tolerate valid Qs abt their faiths w.o. feeling so threatened and upset!




~~Dee

yeah some day mebbe...if only everyone wakes up...:)

Keshi.

Die Muräne said...

@Saby: Just to open your mind a little little bit: "Die" is the German word for "The". Has nothing to do with death.
So maybe now you can find some peace...

Keshi said...

~~Praveen

thanks girl!


**i've seen oppression personally and i do feel sorry for them at times..

and I have seen it too...cos SL has fanatic muslims too. And now that live in Aus, I see the fanatics r forcing their law on Aussies...isnt that ridiculous.


hey dun even bother abt that gutless Anonymous loser...he's the one who abused me in all blogs using racist words and profanity and now claiming to be so pure..he's the kind who takes funeral flowers to his gf...lol ignore the ignorant.

Thanks and u have a wonderful day!

Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Die_Murane

lol Murane good one :)

Saby did u get it now? Finally!

Keshi.

confused said...

All rito,

I guess some people have to learn that it is not Sebia vrs the rest. She has chosen ''I am hurt'' over logic and facts. I just dont get that.

Anyways, as soon as I get some time, my post coming up.

Keshi said...

~~Confused

hey thanks!

**I guess some people have to learn that it is not Sebia vrs the rest. She has chosen ''I am hurt'' over logic and facts. I just dont get that.

Very well-said Confused...and thank u!

Keshi.

southpaw said...

lol...dont worry it happens with me as well while replying the comments....

southpaw said...

Dont worry as soon as i get time i m gonna shift all my posts at wordpress as suggested by rohit, he is right,its much better there...

The Girl Who Sold The World said...

I TOTALLY agree with every word of yours here. Every single person on this earth has the Freedom of Speech and I don't think anyone can take that away. I read your 'Whispers of a Veil' too and I think there was nothing derogatory in that. We all can express our opinions that way and personally, I agree with the post. Why should anyone force one to wear something which one doesn't want to wear?
Moreover, I think a person feels insulted only if he/she wants to. No can make a person feel insulted unless he/she himself feels that yes, I'm insulted. As it is, if one person isn't allowed to question something, this doesn't mean that no one else is. People need to get this fact straight too. If others don't have the right to question a veil, this doesn't mean that you don't or anyone who wants to, doesn't have that right either.
And yes, obviously, people have the choice not to read something if they feel that it hurts them, like you also wrote at the end of this post.
To be painfully politically correct means that a person shall always have to keep his thoughts to himself and to me, that's one cruel denial of a fundamental right.

Keshi said...

~~Southpaw

South I still cant comment dude!

NOICCCE BOIIKE THO ;-)





~~Girl_who_sold_the_world

WC Girl and thanks alot!


**I agree with the post. Why should anyone force one to wear something which one doesn't want to wear?

U (someone who's here in my blog for the first time) understood the point behind my post but few of my friends (who knew me to some extent) couldnt understand that simple point...how strange ha...the world is a funny place :)


**No can make a person feel insulted unless he/she himself feels that yes, I'm insulted.

agreed 100%!


**As it is, if one person isn't allowed to question something, this doesn't mean that no one else is.

TY!


**People need to get this fact straight too. If others don't have the right to question a veil, this doesn't mean that you don't or anyone who wants to, doesn't have that right either.

WELL-SAID! U rock!


**And yes, obviously, people have the choice not to read something if they feel that it hurts them, like you also wrote at the end of this post.

absolutely!


**To be painfully politically correct means that a person shall always have to keep his thoughts to himself and to me, that's one cruel denial of a fundamental right.

Couldnt have said it any better!

Thank u so much for expressing exactly my thoughts girl!

Keshi.

Dalicia said...

religion and politics are both very sensitive issues.

i don't think you could have said it better. i was quite suprised with the reaction with some bloggers.

just keep blogging your way.
you can never make everyone happy. at least you apologized, what more can you do?

Keshi said...

~~Elaine

thanks girl :)

And I repeat Fuzzy's words...

******

1) No matter what you say, if you speak your mind, someone will be upset by it.
2) Never back down from the truth.
3) Always be ready to pay the price for what you believe.

I am sorry that some are offended by things that I have said or will say in the future. I am sorry that they took it the wrong way. What I am not sorry for is the meaning behind the words and that is something I will not back down from.


:)

Keshi.

saby said...

, Calling Keshi, Tanvi and Sebia to kiss and make up,


all the gods and the prophet and Jesus and Mary, Bhagwan Ram and Sita and Kishna and Radha and the Buddha wud want it to happen

saby said...

if u cant hold a debate wid out a sense of humour, u r a fanatic

which makes Keshi and TANVI fanatics

Keshi said...

~~Saby

lol I aint brooding...

****Kisses both Tanvi and Sebia...

if they dun wanna, thats fine too :)

Keshi.

Rohit Talwar said...

That's the attitude babe!

Awesome!

~*. D E E P A .* ~ said...

hey

keshi ...

i had to leave a comment there on Sebia's blog coz the person she was referring to was me .. u know that !

but one thing ... i feel religion is best not discussed .. neither here on blog , nor in our friend circles ... if some1 attacks ur religion, by all means fight back .. but why start the topic ?

again , that is also hypocritical as u r hiding ur feelings , but was there a necessity to reveal it in the 1st place ? i hope u get what i mean

i have been brutally frank for somethings and have got attacked for it ...

Orikinla Osinachi. said...

Keshi,
You are my lotus flower of the blogosphere.

The Lily of the Nile.

Continue to blossom and bloom in the bosom of your greatest love.
The breath of your life.
God.

Dinesh said...

"I don't know the path to success but path to failure is trying to please everyone"...said someone once. I agree, your blog is your space and your views are yours. People can disagree with facts and figures.
You don't need to take back our words unless you have hurt someone with wrong facts.

anuj said...

calm down gal .. evrythng will be fine . just keep expressing urselves .

alice said...

way to go girl....i agree with u completely.....i m like u in this sense...and besides thi is ur blog.....ur opinion and yes u didnt generalse all muslims at all ...i dont understand why ppl wd reacted this way...

take care girl..

rebel_on_loose said...

Hey Keshi i know both u and Sebia for the same amount of time...
i read tht post of urs again and i do agree tht it's not offensive for the moderate muslim since ur only talking against the hardliners who force women to wear it...
Still it's gud tht u've kissed and made up! That's the spirit...
Cmon Sebia jee ab aap bhi gussa thook deejiye!

niki yokota said...

i understand the freedom of speech.
but both posts seem to be hurting each other.
religion is such endless issue..*sob sob*

musings (m000nie) said...

hey k00kie... i dont think nyone has the right to question ur beliefs... i went through sebiaz post... i think its just the hurt thats speaking...

we r brought up with different sentimentals in life... what i think is right is not always what u would think is right too... our cultures, friends, country, family etc influence us...

so if u feel that way about their dress code may b right for u... but others might not feel so...

i m not here to give advise to nyone or support nyone... sebia is my frnd... n so r u...

but id still want to say one important thing... this is a blog n u should write what u want to...

laterzzz

Apy said...

this seems to be a dangerous place.. anything apy says cd b taken against him.. but apy wil stil give the gyan...ol habits die hard :D
ok serious...
I think now all the debating parties should relax... Keshi says she jus expressed herself .. n she din mean to hurt anyone or any religion..good.. point noted...n i agree.. if smone had a bad experience or smone doesn like smthing n that person talks bout it... why should anyone feel bad bout that.. it was not personal.. so it shud not be taken personally.. if a guy kills smone n he happens to be of a particular religion.. are people of that religion gonna try to save him.. knowing that he was wrong???....if ur answer is yes.. then u ve gone way too far... n nothin can b done about it .. i kno the example was weird but i jus wanted to make a point.. that she din blame anyone personally .. she talked bout those who are into these ill practices and i think she has a right to feel n write that in her diary... so chillax .......

Sudeep said...

Noone can please everyone..

n who the hell wants to? I write posts coz i luv to ... not to make ppl happy, laugh or cry

freedom of speech is sure there.. n if someone objects to it in the right dirn.. i.e. in a positive way meant for mental growth of poster n reader too then it is ok.

but i know u r not going to be bogged down by such remarks.. keep it up sweetie

huuggzzzz

saby said...

Keshi

u r living in a safe haven
Freedom of speech is a luxury denied to most mortal men

I emphatize wid Sebia
In the neighbouring state of Gujarat under Mody,
Muslims are under a social boycott after the faked Godhra incident
They live under terror of the midnight knock of the Police and the pollyticians

I sport a Muslim beard. When I am in Gujarat I am under surveillance. I have been advised by my Gujarati friends to knock off the beard, if I want do business wid gujaratis

I witnessed at first hand the Mumbai Hindu-Muslim riots

It was not a pleasant sight




...

saby said...

, FREEDOM OF SPEECH,




............

a terrorized muslim in gujarat under Mody, freedom of speech??

Neha said...

hey u just expressed ur opinion on something.. u are free to do tht! if someone doesn't agree they can give theri own opinions.. y shud u not say something bcos of this..

Maya Cassis said...

yes!courage is something we should muster up in every walk of life.the courage to be a woman and hold your head up high is the most courageous of all.
and I am in the process of getting there cos frankly am a mouse at heart:)

sittingnut said...

heyyy mate!
good morning! :-)

you are right about internet being the place to discuss this sort if thing.

i read the linked post about political correctness.
its good to know that lot of ppl agree with you

we cannot be ourselves unless we are honest to ourselves and others too. truth is always paramount and sometimes truth hurts. but lies and hypocrisy are worse.

anyway one should not get too personal when arguing and should stick to subject and refrain from making personnel attacks. especially when the other party is a friend. not that i follow this advice always :-)

have a good day. :-)

Keshi said...

~~Rohit_Talwar

ty Rohit!




~~Deepa

hey thats ok Deepz...

As long as we know what we r talking abt and that we dun take things too personally, I guess it's ok to discuss almost anything in blog or even among friends...why not. After all friends should be the ppl who u'stand u the most, isnt it?

:) tc girl.





~~Orikinla_Osinachi

**The Lily of the Nile.

aww so sweet hehe...ty!

that verse was simply beautiful!





~~Dinesh

**I don't know the path to success but path to failure is trying to please everyone"...

true...very very true. ty!

There's always gonna be someone who'd take ur word in the wrong way or get hurt by it...so I really cant help that na..I will always speak what I feel..I cant live in a lie just to make someone else content.





~~Anuj

Thanks Anuj...Im all calm...its others who got upset :)




~~Alice

hey Alice ty so much for understanding the point of that post...Im glad that u did.





~~Rebel_on_loose

hey mate thanks for getting the point of that post clearly :)




~~Niki_Bakshi

hey Bakshi babez..:)

Religious debates become endless debates only cos ppl take it so personally. Such simple issues end up in a war...funny thing is that post of mine showed it all that it even happens in blogs..so do we have any hope?





~~Musings

hey m000nie huggggggggggz!

** dont think nyone has the right to question ur beliefs

I think we can question beliefs - but disrespecting others beliefs is not right. I dun have a problem with ppl questioning my beliefs cos I have nothing to defend. Anyways I know that all dun feel that way.

Thanks m000nie, muahh!




~~Apy

hey WC Apy and thanks alot! U r here for the first time and u got the gist of my post clearly whereas my so-called long-term friends couldnt...thats sad na :)

**if a guy kills smone n he happens to be of a particular religion.. are people of that religion gonna try to save him

Terrific example!! Ty! And that's exactly what I want to say too...crime should not be tolerated irrespective of religion.

Thanks alot mate!




~~Sudeep

hey thanks so much Sudeep!

And I want Sebzz to realise that this is not a competition...that it's not abt who's right or wrong and nothing was written against her or Islam...it's abt human rights and I beleive freedom of identity and freedom of speech r 2 of these rights.




~~Saby

**u r living in a safe haven
Freedom of speech is a luxury denied to most mortal men

I know...Im in a pretty good place when it comes to human rights...but I lived in Sri Lanka too..and even in SL women r not treated this way...

It's a luxury denied to most only if u allow to be denied contniuosly, just cos it happened since long time ago...





~~Neha

hey thanks girl, I agree with ya 100%!




~~Maya_Casis

yes sweety..

**courage is something we should muster up in every walk of life

I agree 100%. And I shall not turn back just cos there's danger ahead of me...




~~Sittingnut

hey mate :)

**we cannot be ourselves unless we are honest to ourselves and others too. truth is always paramount and sometimes truth hurts. but lies and hypocrisy are worse.

so true! I cant lie just cos I wanna keep my friends...Im sorry I cant do that ppl...Im not rude but I can be pretty honest, so beware :):)

Thanks and have a good day!

Keshi.

Tarun said...

In the past, I have posted two posts and I think these two posts can sum-up my comments.

http://www.readers-cafe.net/mlp/?p=67

http://www.readers-cafe.net/mlp/?p=41

Keshi said...

~~Tarun

hey Tarun I posted replies at both the places.

The 1st post is talking abt outrageous and disrespectful religious intolerence.

The 2nd post is showing the sheer stupidity that's linked to fanaticism.

:)Thanks!

Keshi.

snazzy said...

One of the upsides for me in this discussion is to see Tanvi can actually type some meaningful stuff.

Not just 'I am bored', 'I am hungry', 'muah' and 'brb'

Snazzy

Keshi said...

~~Sanzzy

hey hows u Snazzy? :) Hows everything ard ya..miss chatting with ya man...

Keshi.

Keshi said...

Taken from Contented's latest post:


To laugh is to risk appearing a fool,
To weep is to risk appearing sentimental
To reach out to another is to risk involvement,
To expose feelings is to risk exposing your true self
To place your ideas and dreams before a crowd is to risk their loss
To love is to risk not being loved in return,
To hope is to risk despair,
To try is to risk to failure.
But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing.
The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing is nothing.
He may avoid suffering and sorrow,
But he cannot learn, feel, change, grow or live.
Chained by his servitude he is a slave who has forfeited all freedom.
Only a person who risks is free.
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
And the realist adjusts the sails.


-William Arthur Ward

Boldnbeautiful said...

hey I dint tell you to change the way u think & write for me.

It is reader to make a choice to read & digest.

I dont know I am Bold Or not Sub consciously each one are too sensitive. After reading Janice post, I read her blog.

I suffered pschycologically. I spent sleepless nights for nearly weeks time. Later I changed my Bedroom. I cannot explain here how I suffered.

Things happened sub consciously.

Hey it is absolutely my fault. I took things serious till it affected my health.

Pscycologically I started getting scared to read the post.

That was just a request to write up some funny stuff so that I can come out of the problem & feel Life is beautiful for everyone.

But u took me wrong. Anyway it is ur wish, ur post, ur blog, ur thinking.

Cheers & have a nice day

Keshi said...

~~BoldNBeautiful

hey girl goshh na I didnt take u wrong :) how can I? I was just asking what disturbed ya and also told u that I cant change the way I write...cos then I didnt know u got this affected by Janice post...

Im so sorry I dint mean to upset anyone by that post...it was abt a true person with a true life...and I only knew her too well from the blog world so I wanted to find out if she was ok...I didnt know it got this much into ya girl...goshh I hope ur ok now...I thought u were into finding out abt her etc and I thought u were absolutely ok...guess u were not, so Im sorry to have caused any discomfort to u BnB...u have always been a good friend to me and I dun want to see u upset this way...but it's totally up to u if u wanna read my blog or not...

just take it easy ok...hugggggggggz!

Keshi.

Boldnbeautiful said...

Forget it. Everything wud be fine.
Ofcourse I love to read ur blog.
Thats why I am here na ha ha.

Take care, I am not blaming u huney. I feel sad, how can god be so cruel. Lit little hope & take away everything.

There are so many questions. I am trying to run away from those :)

Keshi said...

~~BoldNBeautiful

hahahaha ur so cute! lol!


**Everything wud be fine

Phewwwwwwww Im s very glad to hear that darl :)


**how can god be so cruel. Lit little hope & take away everything.

yes u r right...how cud He? I question Him all the time. And since Janice's disappearance, I havent been the same either...tho I pretend to be so strong, I have cried alot...and I still dun get it...why He would do such a thing...


thanks for having faith in me..huggggggggz!

Keshi.

confused said...

Thanks Keshi,

I appreciate the link.

Finally! My gibberish will have some readers..hehehe

But you were the inspiration...

bigbullet said...

I have nothing to say about most of what you have written (and I hope you appreciate that I am entitled to not saying anything on matters I don't want to) regardless of your arm-twisting people into a discussion (a stupid George Bush kind of argument ['you are with us, or against us...'] ... 'if you don't allow comments on your blog it means you are scared etc...' kind of insinuation you made against Sebz.

A point that Confused mentioned (and you grabbed gleefully) abt women not having voting rights in Kuwait -- as if that were the single most regressive practise in the world. (So much so that you yet again insinuated Sebz for 'hiding' this fact, while extolling on the other liberties in Kuwait...)

Let me remind you....
For a country that got its independence in the 18th century, US women could vote only in the 20th century...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_vote
So, for a couple of hundred years, women in the mighty-liberty country did not have the right to vote...
Moreover, it was only in the 1960's that they got equal entitlement in employment.


So give Kuwait and the two-dozen other countries where women don't have the right to vote some time.... and who knows....

To me (and 'I am entitled to my view') Keshi you are displaying the most immature (and today I say - disappointing) kind of activism in the garb of having a 'mature discussion'. I expected better (and I am entitled to my expectations).

Note: This "entitled to" refrain I picked up somewhere in your arguments, so couldn't help re-use it :)


UPDATE:
http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm

Kuwait features in the list... it wasn't too difficult to find.

white devil said...

keshi
sorry i haven't been around, i see that some altercations have been happenning, now don't get mad, you know i consider you to be cool, but when you express your views on someone else's religion and the views are in any way insulting you do need to have a bit of tact. this blog may be considered a personal outlet for you, or even in general. but you have changed it into a public blog where you expect people to read it and to give feedback, this in point changes it into a communal blog, a perfect example would be the questions you state towards other bloggers "who is the hottest blogger" you expected reciprocation, this site is viewed as a public communal site because you made it that way, saying that they are your views is fine, but you must use caution when expressing your opinion, insults have ensued because you do not realize this. personally i don't care about what you said (all religion to me is unimportant) i was born without religion and prefer to stay that way, all the rest is just general noise in the background. i don't mean to speak against you but just as you feel the need to be honest, so do i. it was wrong what you did but not a major wrong, mainly cause you nor anyone else fully realized it.

Keshi said...

~~Confused

my pleasure mate! U make perfect sense anyways and Im gladu put it up.





~~Bigbullet

I think ur talking in ur sleep...u need a nice coffee and some good chilling b4 u speak here abt this post...let Sebia speak for herself and I dun need her entourage coming here in her defense. Speak abt this post or keep silent.






~~White_Devil

thanks mate but even after all that I dun think I would have hurt anyone by that post except a fanatic :) So let em suit themselves...thanks anyways, I got ur point.


Keshi.

bigbullet said...

QUOTING SOMEONE:
"I'm a girl...very friendly...sometimes moody...friends I cannot be without...poems, life, ocean, people...these are somethings I simply love. This is my personal e-diary...if anything I blurt out here upsets anyone, my sincere apologies and I must stress that it wasnt intentional. What I write here are my deepest thoughts that I hardly discuss with people too close to me in real. These are my conversations with my mind and the walls who sometimes have better listening power than anyone else. But ofcourse I value everyone's views and I intend to grow from them, so you're most welcome to express yourselves..."

I guess a bit of hypocrisy there, if I go by the way you have responded to me....


p.s.
"...why should I 'try' to be something else that Im not? However I dun believe I was unbiased in any of my posts...point me one plz...:)
besides...unbiased is not ME...unbiased is the one who gets upset over civil questions such as these...just cos they dun wanna question their faith at all and wouldnt tolerate anyone who does..."

*UNBIASED*: It's not about your intention... it is about your English. I suggest you refer a dictionary, pls...

Keshi said...

~~BigBullet

I can see that u have made this a personal war..better rest now, u sound pathetic at this stage.

Keshi.