This is for everyone's knowledge and I believe the many visitors here would be able to enlighten me if I'm wrong. If I hurt anyone's feelings from this, please say so...cos that's not my aim. I only want people to realise how downright ignorant they can get.I do have many Muslim friends. Most of them are from Turkey, India, Sri Lanka and Malaysia. Unfortunately I don't have any Muslim friends from the middle-east. Muslim women from such countries wear the Hijab (the veil on their head) and I know that some women cover themselves from top to bottom with only their eyes visible (Burqa). Some women's eyes are also covered with a mere net just so that they can get around without falling. I researched about this and found out that some women are forced to wear this and if they go against this 'religious' law (sharia etc) they will be severely punished or even stoned to death. Maybe it's ok if their faith requires the women to cover themselves up but why punish them if they don't like to wear it? And what about men? Why shouldn't they be covered too? Are women some kind of second-class citizens of the world that they have to obey all this and not men? Besides, I seriously don't get why they have to cover themselves up when infact I see so many Lebanese muslim women here smoking in the lunch break with the hijab on their heads.
What kind of hypocrisy is that? And worst of all, many Islamic gangs in Australia are making fun of Aussie women showing their bodies off, and at one stage one Islamic leader stated that Aussie women are asking to get raped!! And ofcourse he had to apologise on TV. If these people want to practise their faith so much, then they shouldn't be in this country anyways or if they want to live here, they shouldn't conclude to such horrible thoughts about Aussie women.The veil or not, isn't it what the character of a woman that matters? I find this whole thing very sexist and it's humiliating enough to any woman in this modern era to be told to cover up completely. Women are not a bunch of sex objects and by being told to cover up if not get raped/killed, that's exactly what these men are saying - women are just second-class sex objects! Do we have anything called human rights anymore?
166 Cranium Signets:
come on .. run hard .. jst a lil more mile .. yipeee I win .. m d first one :D .
yups this 'purdah' system ( as it is popularly called is a kinda curse on muslim women. All such things prevailed in india .. but after britishers came here .. in d 20th century all this was banned . But such things do prevail . And abt punishing women who do not abide by such things .... these bastards release something called a 'FATWA' .. some kind of writing tht says to abandon that women & certain other punishments as well.
Muslim harliners hav always been scary & they really eat ur guts out .. i mean it is then tht u feel tht for godsake if u had jst one chance of comitting a murder :D .
IN australia i think the position is still under control but in regions like south east asia ( india , pakistan ) & middle east it is worse .
but thts d way GOD has created d world .. along wid gud ppl he has placed certain ppl arnd them who literally pisses them off & they have to live wid it :( .
no probs keshi .. lets wait for the RISE OF MACHINES , thn we can pplay arnnd these bastards .. ( but we will have to learn how to program machines in that case :( .. u ready ?? ) .
newyz take care . anuj .
u treading on dangerous ground hunny !
wearing of the veil is telling us guys
'we dont trust u guys, u rapists'
if i want my wife too wear a veil
its either bcoz she is very beautiful or very ugly like Die Murrane's girl
Keshi, Spot On!
I have personally no respect for such orthodox traditions. These tyrants (I shall call them only that) will never understand that religious regulations are not above human life. They will never realize how unfair they are being to their women.
Punishing a woman for refusing to wear a veil is sick. Stoning her to death is nothing but madness. Those who call that their religion are psychos.
Interestingly, asking a veiled woman to show her face is considered an offense punishable by law.
I would be very happy if this post, or my comments here, hurt someone. Because it is time they got up and stopped this tyranny.
Good post, Keshi (licking once more...lol)
Would be interesting if some of the readers here can ... explain ... why the woman should hide themself.
I think also it's bad treatment. And there are sooo many muslim that think like that (not only a few freaks). Strange, I don't understand that.
btw: first?!
i have couple of frens from middle-east. will get back to this post after asking them further about the veil. btwn, yes.. my frens are wearing it:)
=am000nie=
very controversial
i say they shld go out of my country too :D
and my prophecy is that the world war 4 would be the world v/s the muslims
but i still hope and wish that they start beliving in making love and not war and stop asking their women from adorning veils and all ;)
..yeah it's so unfair ,we dunno who to blame for this ..the religion is the big reason and the people who follows and those who are not.
..i think people sometimes forgetting they're still human..with their unforgiving doings.
..damn those people who don't respect women and thinking we're only sex object.. it's not the religion anymore,it's their *shit* selfishness...and unhuman behavior!
hey Keshi ...
this is quick ... just b/f i left for lunch , i had written a half finished comment .. thot i'd finish it off after lunch ... now , what do i see ? a new post !!!!
neway ... am i first ?
and i lost the comment i was planning to publish as i refreshed without saving the comment ...
u know itz strange ... coz at lunch my colleague and i were having the same discussion ... she was telling me abt the atrocities that Shia and Suni muslims inflict on each other ...
and certain accusations that the burqa started in india .. i find that odd coz the islam religion never originated in india .. and the women in india had no reason to hide themselves so
u know what ? i had a junior in college ... on the second day , a friend of hers complimented her on her beauty .. and from that day on , she was in a full covering burqa .... for 4 years , no one knew what she looked like ...
recently , she got married .. her colleagues all went to the wedding hoping to see what she looks like ... there too , she was fully covered ...
can u even imagine what it must be like for these women to live their entire life without being able to live as themselves .... no one would be able to distinguish one burqa clad woman from the other ...
but all muslims are not like that ... we have a couple of muslims in our colony ... they dont cover theie heads an all ... the only things that distinguish them as muslims are their actions - prayers early in the morning , and their fasts.. and their names
Keshi,
I grew up among Muslims and Christians living side by side with their churches and mosques and different haute couture. And we lived in peace. That place is called Obalende on the Lagos Island in Nigeria.
Naturally girls and women are my best friends and the majority of my voters. I loved my mother and girls and women love me. What you sow, you reap. Women love those who love them.
I have had girlfriends who were Muslims with hijab and all. And I loved to see them in the hijab and swaying as well. Some Muslim babes are the sexiest creatures on two legs. Gosh!
I prefer to see them in the hijab and posing with them and later undressing them, from the hijab to the rest of the dress.
I am a curious lover. And I love romantic explorations and adventures.
The truth is most Muslim girls and women are actually living in bondage and they have been praying and hoping for the revolution for their liberation.
You know they kill any Muslim who converts to Christianity or another religion.
They stone any Muslim woman caught in adultery to death, but the man who slept with her would be let go.
This is one of the worst crimes against humanity done in Islamic countries.
Most of them are forced to marry men they don't love and they soon find out even the worst cases of sick men and they must not leave, lest they would be caught and amputated or killed right away.
In Northern Nigeria, one wicked Muslim man amputated the girl-child he had married when she wanted to run away. She was too young for pregnancy and she had VVF later.
I have produced fully illustrated booklets on girl-child marriages in Northern Nigeria to educate them to stop the uncivilized practice. But, they attacked the project and accused us of trying to brainwash them to disobey and abandon their Islamic ways of life. So, we have left them to continue to grope in the darkness of their bondage.
But, I have saved one of my ex-Muslim girlfriends. She still wears the hijab and has two children now from a fellow Muslim man. She thought I wanted to marry her. But, I saved her for her own good. And I left her.
We should continue to educate them.
“Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.”
Thomas Jefferson
there have, are, will be - extremists, moderates and the liberal
most of us in the free world n we talk of such things easily
imagine urself as a slave with two options
1) follow what is told and live
2) burn n die
most ppl wud choose the former in hope that someday they would taste freedom
ur last statement is an over-generalization. just coz of a few individuals (which is turning into a lot) misconstrued notions of their religious beliefs and expression, women don't become sex objects :).
human rights is again subject to interpretation as is stipulated in each state. I hope you do know that chineese don't have freedom of expression
the funny thing is we are the ones fretting bout this all the time ... the real victims r waging a courageous battle to not upset their traditions or whatever and yet live the way they wish to
don't expect people to change their traditions overnight without making noise ... for freedom and such things are only a perception
there maybe a community (unknown to us) which considers nudity as freedom and who consider our society where public nudity is illegal (in any places in the name of ethics) as devoid of freedom and human rights :)
so lets learn to accept others way of life and give them time to imbibe what we consider freedom
just as much as we hate them for thrusting their opinions on other, they would hate us for imposing our opinions on them ;), fair enuf?
hope I didn't write anything to offend you in trying to convey what I meant ... I ain't no diplomat ... but I just found you argument one sided n merely attacking ... and yes you are entitled to your opinion ;)
Did god discover religion? No we humans discovered the religious, then why should be afraid, its truly protesting law to tell some one to hide there face with veil. Good topic keshi.
Gud evening Australia... wassup
huuggzzzzz
I dont know 'bout Muslims, but in Rajasthanis...
in ancient India, Rajasthani women were considered to be the most beautiful lot (m praying tht they still do.. lol). Many rulers who used to invade India, used to rape the womenfolk. So it was made compulsory for women to wear a ghunghat (pull the saree on her face) so tht the invaders couldn't see her (the men folk were probably on defensive mode rather than offensive)
So this tradition continued n it is still prevalent in orthodox regions... but in Rajasthanis nowadays it is on a very very small scale (which is really gud indication of advancement)
But still Muslim countries r yet to go ahead with it.. possibly will be doing tht in few years/decades.. lets hope tht
frankly speaking i just dont like to see the ghunghat (still ladies do pull it down in my native place)... it is so ridiculous... m m proud tht my mom is damn against it n advises others to shun it
Keshi, veil is not just prevalent in the Muslim world. In India, for example, some Hindu women too hide their faces behind their ghunghat( A lesser veil).
An incident :
This young couple was about to go boating. The wife's face was covered with ghunghat. The hubby says, "Ab shutter nikalo"(Remove the shutter)
i'm from kuwait, i am not veiled neither am i covered from head to toe.. we don't have this law in kuwait.. as for being punished, i don't get punished.. i never have been punished for walking around in a t-shirt and shorts.. its okay here, but our society is a bit conservative, u won't see people walking around in bikinis around here..
as for the lebanese women smoking whilst veiled, smoking is not against our religion, in fact, i don't see how you link smoking -a habit- to religion.. there are no relationships whatsoever..
good topic, i'm appalled to here stupid people issuing statements on TV about the fashion style of Aussies, ignore him, he's a fanatic.. the world are full of fanatics!
The Noble Qur'an declares:
"Oh Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women so as not to be annoyed." (Ahzaab 59)
References:
http://www.jamiat.org.za/isinfo/w_veil.html
http://www.jannah.org/sisters/hijab2.html
it seems the primary objective is to avoid evaluating the womens by their appreance and sexuality,
but.....
Cheers!
:)
Felt that feeling before!
Sad that this tradition continues... even in many women's colleges today :-(
hmmm...controversial topic...and if muslim hardliners wre to c this...who knows...a fatwa may be released against u!!...
jokes apart...it's a sad fact yes! wen my aunt lived in d middle east she had to wear a burkha too...and she wld tell me of how men wld hit women wid a stick(??!!) if any body part showed...accidentally!...what shit...
here in India...too...even amongst Hindus...i sumtimes wonder why women have to wear sindoor...mangalsutra...etc etc...to show they are married??
I just would feel claustorphobic if i were married in a traditional set up and had to live my life widout the freedom to wear the kind of clothes i want...
anyway it's not about clothes...it's about treating women at par with men if not better!...it's about getting rid of this notion that women are inferior...
and worst of all...using religion as a means of coercing women to live like second rate citizen...
and fact is...why women?? it's men who need sum controlling if u ask me!...men who letch...men who can't stand a successful woman...men who want to control the women in their lives...men who think women are commodities...if only we could reverse this whole senseless process and have men restricted!....all covered...hit wid sticks...stoned for adultery?!...in hindus...wearing sindoor? or sum sign of being married....(ummm...i know sum men wear a ring...but stilll...!)...
getting a muslin woman's perspective would be interesting ,u know...i mean one who is traditional and follows the faith and all the restrictions (no matter how senseless we may find them!)...hmmm! you and i hate this...i wonder what her take on this would be??
i stole Die Murranes girl
he is a real Klutz
....
Hmmm an interesting post from u!
Almost all of the non-islamic(and modern islamic) world agrees that the Shariat law was made for a different time and a different world, a world which was ruled by warring tribes in the middle east(some still there in Afghanistan) and such draconian laws might've served a useful purpose then.
But to continue with such barbarism in these times when the whole world is brimming with women's liberation-equal rights and all, would be a blatant act of infringement of basic human rights.
The rule is simple- those who willingly want to follow the strict religious code(thr won't be many), let them do so, but those do not want it, can and should NEVER be forced.
I feel Indian muslims do enjoy a much greater level of freedom than most other Asian countries...no wonder Sania Mirza is the teen icon of muslim girls even in Pakistan!
by the way ...
wearing a burkha is no protection against Die Murrane
he gets turned on by ankles
have been to ur blog a couple of times or more.. but first time commenting, i guess...
u know such burqa system exist in India too.. even near my office in B'lore.. lots of them infact..
Even i donno why they r made to wear these and tht too in the hot summer i donno how they r able to walk with all those covered..
as u said, its really harsh.. and sheer injustice bestowed on only women..
i hope things would change for the best... will it? thts a big question... never know when we'll get an answer..
I absolutely agree with you. And, why are so afraid of hurting anyone? Unless and until we speak up, nothing will change.
Yes, it's a big bunch of hyprocrisy. Here in the USA, these girls wear those tight-fitting dresses - where you can see each and every curve on their body, but at the same wear that hijab over their head. I wouldn't mind if it was a fashion statement - women wear many things on their head for such statements. But, no, they don't wear it for that purpose; atleast they deny that, and if you ask them, you will have to listen to long statements of how we other women are wrong and they are right!!!........I get so mad....
Are these women crazy? Can't they see that men are having all the freedoms, doing whatever they want, but they are taking away the freedom of women by forcing them to follow all sorts of rules in the name of religion and these women are supporting them??? I don't get it, I don't understand...
By the way, such ideas also exist in India among Non-Muslims; nowadays it's changing, but even 10/20 years back, Indian men could wear anything, but women have to wear saree or salwar-suit or native dresses; if they wear jeans, pants, skirts, etc, they would become eligible to being RAPED...still you will see that in every offices in India, women wear saree or salwar-suit. Why do you think is that?
I think something is wrong with us women. No need to blame the muslim women, but all women are strange and hypocrite and enemy of their own genders....
muslim or not..hypocrisy is inbuilt in societies in most of asia. i dont understand when people harp senselessly about culture and conservatism without having any clue of basic human values.
With Islam as with any religion (including Christianity) there is a fringe element who tends to give all people of that religion a bad name.
I was reading that in last year's Iranian elections the only reason the ultra right wing fundamentalist Islamic leadership was able to remain in power was to find legal loopholes which invalidated the candidacy of almost all of the pro-Western candidates running to serve in the government. Much like the Apartheid in South Africa (which has thankfully ended), the Iranian government is currently a rule by minority. Many people in the Middle East are indeed pro-Western and are in favor of women's rights and other generally Western ideas.
Unfortunately, with the media the way it is-- "if it bleeds, it leads." That is to say, the fringe elements in ANY religion act as a lightning rod for the media. It creates controversy and controversy sells. Therefore the more controversial the religious views the more coverage it gets.
We don't hear near enough about the peaceful and non-militant Muslims-- because those stories aren't controversial enough. They don't bring in the big advertising money that the super extremists bring in.
"The veil or not, isn't it what the character of a woman that matters? "
well said keshi..i couldent agree more.
real nice post...even i think tht the "purdah system" is a crazy practice and should be banned...
Its sad tht people still think tht way even in todays modern world...
Wonder if womas lib is juss a myth...sigh!
The rule for muslim men and women is entire different!.. and why should religion act on the dress?.. is something unknown!!.. religion focuses on soul and to be peacuful!!.. Its the other cults in the soceity who takes religion onto wrong paths and stake things for their own cause and others who are follwers of the religion are so blind that they follows these cults!!.. Just wake up people!!!
I read this somewhere and I believe stats uphold this - Only those societies that have women with equal rights are the ones most advanced and truly progressive.
So thats where I stand, and I don't have too much respect for customs/traditions or whatever that subjugate women either.
Something off the topic. I just saw the GNR video and I miss them sooo much!
You're right!
Human rights don't exist at all. It's sad that we keep braggin about them all the time but in practical terms it's so different.
I totally agree with u dear!!!..Infact, I had a collegue who was wearing a head scarf just coz the community ppl will speak ill abt her otherwise!!!!...she used to look for non-muslim company for smoking n drinking ! Many times ppl used to ask her why does she acts if thats not what she is...!
All I feel this is the theory..where the more you restrict the more person tends to...woman is not an object ...and equal rights should be there for men n women..!
Good thought provoking post...!
cheers
a topic which will never have any final conclusion
I don't know this is kind of tricky....i am no authority on religion either......but whole lot of it is still as it was when it began.....the holy book is still as it was first written..not a owrd has been changed nor it will ever be.....so naturally it was based arnd things tht were prevalent then......the way the women where treated then .. i think gave birth to veil....to hide them selves ....whatever ppl may say but i think even today...in India....the gals who flaunt are still victims of eve teasing.....anyway it shud be indvidual's rt to decide wht she wants.......there used to be women in our household who used a veil but long back it has gone n no one has any problem......on the other hand i know a gal....who was an athlete wore all kinds of short stuff and has now chosen the veil...she says she is happy now as ppl dont stare at her with lust...dont pinch my backside .....
I now in middle east countries its horrible ppl are forced...even men are forced to so certain things..like fasting in ramzan etc but then those guys are big idiots.....a lot of gals dont wear nythig underneath there veil in those countries and all those sheiks the so called defenders of faith..come night are they are in Paris doing all those things which they continuosly preach againts during the day..........
I have been among the Muslims and I have worked for employers who were Muslims. And they never stopped me from praying in the office. Infact, they were my best employers. More honest than the hypocrites who claimed to be "Christians".
Most female Muslims want the best things in life. And freedom is free and not based on religion.
God bless.
U r right.. I think Muslims who go to other countries and start talking abt all this should be shut.. I think its ridiculous to go somewhere else and talk rubbish.. If u r brought uup in a way - pls stick to it and dont go lecturing ppl shd be the motto.. Let ppl live in a way they want to.. I think its just an excuse that women dressing in a awkward manner is regded as invitation for rape etc.. If the society itself is a conservative one then yes we shd abide by certain agreeable rules .. U cant go wearing a bikini in Saudi and say Its my wish rite.. so it depends on places to places.. but that doesnt give clean chit to women disrobing just for no reason..
hey you :-)
good morning !
Women are not a bunch of sex objects and by being told to cover up if not get raped/killed, that's exactly what these men are saying
i totally agree with you. here in sri lanka it is not only some islamic men who express this sort of thing others(including other women) do so. of course they don't insist that women be covered from head to foot but they nevertheless say that women who according to them dress immodestly invite rape and sexual harassment.
i think ppl should be challenged and taken to task whenever they try to impose their own moral standards on others. ppl have a right to live in whatever they want without interference from others as long as they do not interfere in other ppl's lives directly.
i don't know the exact law on dress in islam so i wont comment on that.
btw what do you think about the idea that woman have special abilities (like being able to empathize more, or handle others with less confrontation etc) as opposed to men. imo that is sexist :-)
having being brought up in the middle east among my muslim friends,i have seen that it is worn by majority only through compulsion.
women are given a lot of money,riches and comfort but they are subdued by a male dominant society.
they have no say and I know how they feel.they just can't come out of it.If one tries,they are lashed out at by the public being called 'filthy' women.
kudos for bringing this up to you keshi:)
i agree wid Vivhyd
when in Rome
do (dress)as the Romans do
, Cardinal Ivan berated Goan catliks for dressing sexy for sunday mass,
~~Anuj
lol yep ur the 1ST Congrats! :)
**'purdah' system
oh is it...I didnt know.
**.. along wid gud ppl he has placed certain ppl arnd them who literally pisses them off & they have to live wid it
nope we DONT have to live with it :) Having different faiths is ok but when it violates womens' and human rights, we just CANT accept it as the way the world is and keep quiet?? Can we?
hehe Im ready for the machines and the programming lol cos Im a programmer na :):)
ty Anuj!
Keshi.
~~Saby
heyy Saby hows u :)
**u treading on dangerous ground hunny
nope...it's BECAUSE we consider them to be dangerous that they have this great control over us..ppl should tread all over their ignorant laws and stop violating human rights such as ounishing women severly for not wearing the hijab. Did u ever think how hot/uncomfy it is for them to wear it 24/7 in that kind of middle-eastern weather? And to get beaten for not wearing it??? Who r these men who has taken the law into their hands?
**wearing of the veil is telling us guys...'we dont trust u guys, u rapists'
thats true too...but its men alone who has come up with this law, how sad!
And who's Murane's girl? :)
Keshi.
~~Pradeep.K
true...these men will never get it...so why cant the UN or something get out there and punish these men?? Why is it so hard for this world to get through to this kind of fanatic men?
** would be very happy if this post, or my comments here, hurt someone. Because it is time they got up and stopped this tyranny.
lol thats so sweet. Im quite honest too..no need to hide how I feel..cos if I know that I aint wrong what do I have to fear? And to be honest if someone gets hurt by my post, then it's got to be one of those fanatics.
Thanks Pradeep!
Keshi.
~~Die_Murane
hehe licking? lolll! btw na ur not first..Anuj is :)
**And there are sooo many muslim that think like that (not only a few freaks). Strange, I don't understand that.
thats so true! Why I made this post was because there are so manhy muslims who believe in this...wearing the Hijab and getting punished of not..and I dun u'stand that either! Quite honestly I'd like if a real (one who's not fanatic) Muslim here can explain this to all of us...
why should women hide themselves and why be punished if not??
Keshi.
~~Amutha
Amu muahhhh! I missed ya...
**i have couple of frens from middle-east.
ok..plz ask them if they too believe that women who dun wear it should be punished? and why?
Thanks Amu!
Keshi.
,we must invite FIRA to comment,
~~Burf
hiii burfy hows u :)
**and my prophecy is that the world war 4 would be the world v/s the muslims
I think so too...not cos ALL muslims are fanatic but most r...Im sorry to say that. I even told this to my good Muslim friends here...actually Inever asked them abt the Hijab cos they dun wear it...they r quite liberal Muslims...if they can be like that, why is the majority so fanatic?
Keshi.
~~Lil_Kath
heyyy Kath :)
**..i think people sometimes forgetting they're still human..with their unforgiving doings.
true...some groups of humans think they r so supreme and higher than the rest that they can take the law into their hands...how dumb!
**..damn those people who don't respect women and thinking we're only sex object.. it's not the religion anymore,it's their *shit* selfishness...and unhuman behavior!
yes u said the word - it's SELFISHNESS and ANIMALISTIC nature abt these men...
Ty Kath!
Keshi.
is Burf talking about the clash of civilizations?
God forbid !
~~Deepa
aww Deepz Im too fast ha..lol sorry!
**can u even imagine what it must be like for these women to live their entire life without being able to live as themselves
thats so true..I mean how can u live w.o. being able to be urself just cos u have to obey some law? And that too something ridiculous as covering from top to bottom just cos ur a woman??
Burqa originated in India? Wow I didnt know that..gotta find the reason why women had to start wearing it...any leads?
Keshi.
Sorry to hear that you have these religous fanatics in your country as well. I have nothing against anyones religion as long as their practice of it does not infringe upon the rights, liberties, and safety of others.
~~Orikinla_Osinachi
that was such an enlightening comment mate..thanks..I got to know alot that's happening at ur end...
**Some Muslim babes are the sexiest creatures on two legs
hehe...I too think that Muslim women are some of the prettiest women on Earth..that could be why they r cursed :( to wear the veil...
**they have been praying and hoping for the revolution for their liberation.
yes...and we sensible ppl have to help em instead of saying that's their law, lets not get involved..
**lest they would be caught and amputated or killed right away.
yesss! And how sickening is that???!!
**I have produced fully illustrated booklets on girl-child marriages in Northern Nigeria to educate them to stop the uncivilized practice
wow ur doing something to help a part of these women and thats great! I havent done anything yet...I can only blabber here :(
**“Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.”
Thomas Jefferson
thats a great quote...we gotta start somewhere and fight to the end...
ty ur a wonderful person!
Kehsi.
~~Saby
hehe good idea...I hope he comments then :)
Keshi.
Imran Khan wooed and married Jenima
she wore the veil and all
the marriage didnt last a year
Culture shock?
~~Samy
hey hows u :)
**ur last statement is an over-generalization. just coz of a few individuals (which is turning into a lot) misconstrued notions of their religious beliefs and expression, women don't become sex objects
nope it was not an over-generalisation at all :) Just look at how many of them are out there now...how many women in the middle-east get beaten, killed or tortured for not following their 'law'..I hear it often now than b4. And we cant just sit and say it's their law so lets not get involved. When a law violates human rights and womens' rights can we just say our hands are tied?
Keshi.
~~Samy
and I forgot to say..'
**just as much as we hate them for thrusting their opinions on other, they would hate us for imposing our opinions on them ;), fair enuf?
We dun have such ridiculous and torturous laws in our beliefs, do we? Show me one if u can :)
Keshi.
~~Jeevan
it's sickening to torture women for not wearing them ..I bet most women wear it cos they fear the men in their families..
Keshi.
~~Sudeep
Good Morning :):) Hows u Suddep?
Thats some very interesting history abt Rajastani women..wow...and I bet they r very pretty :):)
**Many rulers who used to invade India, used to rape the womenfolk. So it was made compulsory for women to wear a ghunghat (pull the saree on her face) so tht the invaders couldn't see her (the men folk were probably on defensive mode rather than offensive)
yeah I can u'stand that was in the olden days...when women didnt have a say on anything. but who's fault was that they got raped?
**m m proud tht my mom is damn against it n advises others to shun it
thats great that both u and ur mum is gainst such aging and silly practices...ty Sudeep!
Keshi.
~~Neel_Arurkar
hey thats what Sudeep said too..that similar thing is prevalent in India...
And why wud that woman wear the burqa when she's with her husband? Do they think that a husband can be a rapist too? Goshh what kind of trust and confidence do they have on their own men!
Keshi.
~~Baroque
hi there :)
**we don't have this law in kuwait.. as for being punished, i don't get punished..
thats good to hear! Im talking abt women in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq etc who do inded get severly punished..
**its okay here, but our society is a bit conservative, u won't see people walking around in bikinis around here..
thats accepted cos it's ur country and ur society. But for Muslims to come over here and tell Aussie women need to cover up cos they r sluts who will be raped...is that fair? That's exactly what they said and had to apologise on TV.
**as for the lebanese women smoking whilst veiled, smoking is not against our religion, in fact, i don't see how you link smoking -a habit- to religion.. there are no relationships whatsoever..
Smoking is considered a bad habit...like Alcohol and drugs. And for a Muslim woman to smoke, with a hijab on doesnt look that good for what the hijab represents. Actually here is an excerpt from 'Islam of Today'...
***************************
The average non-Muslim woman sees nothing wrong with unmarried sexual relations, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, dancing with men, walking around half-naked, maybe taking drugs, gossiping, lying, using foul language, etc... (Who are all those immigrant Muslim men who race to marry such women and ignore their noble Muslim sisters?)
While the Muslim woman, in Hijab, radiates the exact opposite! She doesn't engage in those things and rather tries to be humble, self-controlled, full of nobility and goodness and spiritually motivated. Non-Muslim women freak out because they feel so much shame deep down that they are so rotten and unclean! (Culturally-oriented Hijab-wearers don't threaten them much because they usually are rude, loud and without inner-purity, as well. There is a style of Hijab and a look of inner-purity which distinguishes the conscientious Muslimahs from all others. You can see Taqwa in a person's face!)
*************************
I guess that could have been written by a fanatic Muslim but if Hijab is about purity of a woman and her character, do u honestly think wearing one and smoking isn't a terrible sight?
** ignore him, he's a fanatic.. the world are full of fanatics!
I wish I could..but the fanatics seem to grow by the day and it's quite hard to ignore when that happens :)
Ty!
Keshi.
~~Vishnu
hey thanks for that excerpt!
**it seems the primary objective is to avoid evaluating the womens by their appreance and sexuality
hmm then what abt men?
Keshi.
~~Vinesh
hey WC Vinesh and thanks!
**even in many women's colleges today
true...and u know alot of young Muslim women r facing so many difficulties in Aussie schools having to wear the hijab..cos they claim that they can take part in freely in sports etc and in Summer it gets really hot here and they still have to wear em daily to school...how unfair for these poor lil kids!
Keshi.
~~Ishita
:) helloooo Ish!
**...and if muslim hardliners wre to c this...who knows...a fatwa may be released against u
lol what's a fatwa in the first place? Even if they do that to me, I will still speak the truth...freedom of speech is something I value, unlike them :)
**my aunt lived in d middle east she had to wear a burkha too...and she wld tell me of how men wld hit women wid a stick
OMG I have seen pics of a woman being beaten by men..it's totally disguisting and animalistic!
**even amongst Hindus...i sumtimes wonder why women have to wear sindoor...mangalsutra
so true...it even happens among the hindus...but c'mon they dun punish the women if they dun wear em do they?
**!...it's about getting rid of this notion that women are inferior...
Spot on! Exactly my point. Women have to suffer cos of some hormonal issues of men? Yeah why dun these men get beaten and told to wear a veil all their lives? I find it ridiculous!
**you and i hate this...i wonder what her take on this would be??
true..would be good to hear from tarditional and non-traditional Muslim women...any out there apart from Baroque?
Keshi.
~~Rebel_on_loose
hey Rebzz spot on! U said it perfectly!
**But to continue with such barbarism in these times when the whole world is brimming with women's liberation-equal rights and all, would be a blatant act of infringement of basic human rights.
thats my point too. And Im sure alot of Muslim women want to break free but they continue with the tradition cos of FEAR.
Keshi.
~~Prasad
WC Prasad and ty :)
**Even i donno why they r made to wear these and tht too in the hot summer i donno how they r able to walk with all those covered..
true...heat in the ME must be like hell and to wear that everyday of their lives, how barbaric!
Keshi.
~~KL
Hey girl hows u?
Im glad u agree with me on this..
**Here in the USA, these girls wear those tight-fitting dresses - where you can see each and every curve on their body, but at the same wear that hijab over their head.
Just like in Aus then! They wear the hijab and they wear tight jeans, short skirts...just what exactly are they trying to prove??
**and if you ask them, you will have to listen to long statements of how we other women are wrong and they are right!!
read the excerpt I left in the reply to Baroque...we the non-muslim women r apparently so unclean and bad :):) Atleast I dun wear tight clothes with a hijab on...ofcourse I do it w.o. a a hijab on and that just suits my conscience...hehehe.
**by forcing them to follow all sorts of rules in the name of religion and these women are supporting them
yeah u r sooo right...it's these very women who support these harsh rules to go on for years...they must rise against these blatantly ridculous rules and fight for their rights instead of waiting for the UN to help them...
**...still you will see that in every offices in India, women wear saree or salwar-suit. Why do you think is that?
yeah why..I dun get it either. What r they trying to do? please the men by acting so pure and thinking that the dress will do that? goshh give me a break!
**but all women are strange and hypocrite and enemy of their own genders....
I guess so...so many women r afraid to speak up and suffer in their own hypocrisy!
Keshi.
~~Elisa
hello there :)
**but I think their should be a happy medium, and please don't expose everything.
thats true...there should be a happy and balanced medium to everything...
**I've told my daughter how lucky she is living here, because some things she's done here in the USA, she would of been killed if she lived in another part of the world, so be thankful, and do the right choice,
it's not ur daughter's fault that she was born in the US...and it's not those women with the burqas fault that they were born to fanatic families...how sad.
**Women in other countries have it a lot harder than what we do here in the USA, but we don't have much morals, so which is worst?
No I dun agree to what ur saying here Elisa. Why d u think US, AUS etc dun have morals? We have alot of good morals and values here...ppl appreciate each other for what they r and there's so much respect for women over here than in the Middle East. Just cos someone wears a burqa that doesnt make them full of morals. The bad person will be abd anywhere in the world...irrespective of the caste, creed or religion.
We cant take our freedom as a blessing and those women's lives as a curse. They r in that situation cos of some ridiculous ill-informed man-made laws...these women can also live like us only if those ppl get educated.
Thanks Elisa!
Keshi.
~~Mind_Curry
** i dont understand when people harp senselessly about culture and conservatism without having any clue of basic human values.
Spot on! In the battle called Religion, some ppl forget to maintain human values and rights and thats the biggest loss.
Keshi.
~~Perplxio
hey mate! I agree that with any religion there is a group of ppl who wreck it for everyone else.
**the fringe elements in ANY religion act as a lightning rod for the media. It creates controversy and controversy sells. Therefore the more controversial the religious views the more coverage it gets.
true...but why isnt the fringe elements of other faiths coming up in media as often as the Islamic fringe elements do?
**We don't hear near enough about the peaceful and non-militant Muslims-- because those stories aren't controversial enough. They don't bring in the big advertising money that the super extremists bring in.
cos there's nothing much to say abt the militant groups of the rest of the faiths...they dun create much news, how come?
Keshi.
~~Gangadhar
ty for understanding so well what Im trying to say.
**Respect must be earned regardless of one's appearance and it is not earned through a dress code alone
Indeed!
Keshi.
~~Pri
**Its sad tht people still think tht way even in todays modern world...
Wonder if womas lib is juss a myth
I think it is a myth...so sure of it now.
Keshi.
~~Sujit
**religion focuses on soul and to be peacuful..
so true...and why is it SO HARD for ppl to u'stand that? I dun get it!
Keshi.
~~Karmic_Jay
**Only those societies that have women with equal rights are the ones most advanced and truly progressive.
it's so apparent isnt it :) Good point!
Keshi.
~~Jo
**I just saw the GNR video and I miss them sooo much!
awww...I dun miss em much cos I listen to em atleast once a day :)
Keshi.
~~Rohit_Talwar
**. It's sad that we keep braggin about them all the time but in practical terms it's so different.
U said that right!
Keshi.
Thanks for posting this Keshi!! I have similar frustrations like you. Reading this makes me feel really blessed having been raised here in the US. I was born and brought up till I was 12 in the middle east but it was in Abu-Dhabi(a little more liberal than the other surrounding countries). ANyhow, thereis so much hypocrisy and legalism behind this.. arghhhhh....
~~Dawn
hey Dawn hows u darl :)
**Infact, I had a collegue who was wearing a head scarf just coz the community ppl will speak ill abt her otherwise!!!!...she used to look for non-muslim company for smoking n drinking
there u go!
Baroque I hope ur will read this :)
Ok I had a Mulim friend in Sr Lanka...she covered from top to bottom but her face is shown. U know what she told me..she hates it...but that she had to do it cos of her family. I felt really bad for her cos Sri Lankan weather aint that cool. She used to pass my house everday to classes, clad in fully-covered clothes...one day she told me that she had a BF and that when she meets him she gets into a cossies (swim wear) and go boating with him..and she showed me pics too. I dun condemn her cos thats what she really is...I feel sorry for her and I hope one day she gets to live as what she really wants to.
Keshi.
~~Ajay
** topic which will never have any final conclusion
true ...but we dun have to have a conclusion today when trying to educate ppl...it will get there some day, if not now :)
Keshi.
~~Jackal
**.....a lot of gals dont wear nythig underneath there veil in those countries and all those sheiks the so called defenders of faith..come night are they are in Paris doing all those things which they continuosly preach againts during the day..........
Hypocrisy in FIRST ORDER :)
Ty mate!
Keshi.
~~Confused
**The origins of Hijab is pre Islamic. Basically, prostitutes used to wear it, so they would not tempt good men,
goshh really? wow we r hearing new things here....prostitutes? guess thats what these men still see women as? Sex objects.
**It has really very little to do with Islam as a religion.
I bet. Cos Islam is a peaceful language...according to the non-militant Muslims.
**Unfortunately, Islam has been reduced to size of beard and Hijab and other such holy crap and the original message has been mostly forgotten.
lol @beard. SO true!
ty mate!
Keshi.
~~Vivhyd
True...no one can go to another man's country and order how they should live especially if it's not violating any human rights.
**but that doesnt give clean chit to women disrobing just for no reason..
thats true too...:)
Keshi.
~~Sittingnut
heyyy :)
**women who according to them dress immodestly invite rape and sexual harassment
I know some idiots say this in SL too...bloody idiots. These r the real rapists talking.
**btw what do you think about the idea that woman have special abilities (like being able to empathize more, or handle others with less confrontation etc) as opposed to men. imo that is sexist :-)
who said this?
Keshi.
~~Maya_Casis
**having being brought up in the middle east among my muslim friends,i have seen that it is worn by majority only through compulsion.
hey really? u were brough up in the ME, wow!
yeah most of em r doing it in fear od the men. how sad.
I feel sorry too for those women but it's THEM who can help themselves...they have to get together and stand up for their rights...perhaps beat those men with the same sticks and stones...
Keshi.
~~Fuzzbox
hey thanks mate and I totally agree with u!
Keshi.
~~Saby
**Cardinal Ivan berated Goan catliks for dressing sexy for sunday mass,
well then he must be an unreasonable fanatic too...
Keshi.
in Victorian England
the legs of tables were covered completely by table cloth
was considered sexual
the khajuraho temples were closed to public by the british when they landed in India
caraf has been attacked by annony mouses for being too sexual in her posts
caraf has deleted her blogg
~~Sajini
hey Sajini hows u :)
**ANyhow, thereis so much hypocrisy and legalism behind this
thats so true! It's all abt a dress code not abt what's really in the character!
Keshi.
, Cardinal Ivan is right Keshi,
the celibate catlik padres cudnt focus on the mass
they were getting turned on
3 catlik priests cudnt resist the temptation in my parish
an unholy affair resulted
2 were defrocked
u sexy girls shud not dress sexy in church
i cant focus on prayer too
i stopped going to sunday mass
i go on weekdays when the sexy girls aint there
Know what I find most amazing!
How come the women there haven't revolted against this yet??
I mean how there has'nt been some kinda mass revolution to take this meaningless an hypocritical crap away!
A lot of times we see women being subjected to injustice because they tend to tolerate it!
If women want to liberate themselves then Its THEY who need to do it...and no one else!
I know its easier said than done--but for some reason I don't even see a start here!
Revolution is not a piece of cake in the Islamic world Anand
lotta women have revolted and are now history
it is not easy to change mind sets
women and men wud prefer to take the easy way out
it is easy for Keshi and u guys to preach
wish u guys wud go to the Gulf and preach
u neednt go to the Gulf
go to Kashmir
the brahmin pandits preferred to flee
Nothing in the world is easy saby...if that would have been our attiude would we be a nuclear powered world today?
Nothing can happen in a day--it may taken a whole century--but for me the irritant is that its women who seem to be propogating it more than men!
~~Anand
Anand is 100% right! It's those women itself who r not doing anything abt it and just blindly following it in fear. They have to get up and do something. No one can help u if u cant help urself!
Saby we r not just preaching like ur Catholic Father in the church..:) We r trying to open ppl's minds to this...I believe that even among the learned ppl, there r so many ppl who blindly go by all of this. Im sure there r plenty of bloggers who would hate me for this post, Im sure there will be. But I'm sure thats cos it's troubling their conscience...somehow we r reaching everyone in some small way...
it wont happen overnight...true...but Independance in India and Sri Lanka didnt happen overnight either...it somehow happened :)
Keshi.
it was a wooman who had the guts to challenge USA
and make us a nuclear power
only now acknowledged by BUSH
I don't think hijab was meant for all women, its been simply used for centuries maybe coz some of the fanatics had the fear that some other fellow jack like him might take advantage of his beautiful dame like he does all the time in the society.
the USA tried to enforce western style democrazy on to IRAQ
wid all its hi-tech weaponry and mass nedia control
they failed
the IRAQI men and women want Saddam back
he was a lesser evil
yes the catlik church preaches a lott
but the vatican was in the heat when Mussolini was in Italy
the Vatican remained silent when millions of jews were being gassed
and Hitler was a catlik
yeah u gave a punch...
Sorry to hear about ur friend..Keshi,and I also wish that when she goes with her man..she gets all her freedom that she wishes for!!!
Being in Canada, I hv seen so many of them started wearing hijab after sep 11th...when once I asked one woman she said..its our unity that we are showing towards our religion...I was totally..shocked...why one has to show unity for religion..isnt religion something which give u freedom to practise the way you want...either take it or leave it!
Its sad..sometimes to see how they are brainwashed...as they cant see , as they are kept behind the veil ..they are treated also like that...they are mere an object which produces kids...satisfies there desires and do all the household work....its sad...people do talk about liberation..when I saw the documentary the other day on TV on Afghan women...and the girl finished her education in US and had to return to her native....she was crying as her marriage was fixed already n she has no escape ....its sad n I pity!
Rightly said by someone here..this topic will go on n on..without any positive end...as one need to have that zeal within to get liberated...no one would come and do it for them...
God helps those who help themselves :)
cheers an awesome topic...I just loved it :D
hugggzzz
Hey Keshi,
I agree with ur comment completely! Either we can sit back and cry and accept that this is what it is--or we can learn to fight back.
Unfortunately most of us because of our background, upbringing still find it difficult to fight back--however I do believe that soemday this will change too!
good morning:)(atleast by Indian std's:))...well I've had many muslim and bori frnds...they all wear burqa's only wen they go to pray...otheriwse they wear everything a normal 21yr old gilr wears...halters and backless...drinks and everything...so I haven't come across any such thing in India atleast...but yes this happens in the UAE...
like Sudeep said, it started to protect the women from the men...
well, I think if muslim men are so horny...then they should be punished and not the women!!! but even women tell their daughters to follow d same practices!! it's a shame tht no one comes forward to stop this!! thought things have improved these days...atleast the women get to have education now...
if you are interested in knowing more, read "The Princess" by J.P.Sasson, it's a real story of an arab princess, who tries to break away from all such bullshit customs...a very touching read...
Forget muslim girls, every religion, every community rips apart a woman's pride and respect from time to time. The mindset needs to be changed.
isnt it our fault when we let others run our lives? We can only talk but we cant force the change because there are many who agree to such forces. In Malaysia, its becoming worst for everyone. The hindu's are force to wear the headscarf during government functions. and who knows in the future, the locals will wear the veil too...
On when do the time come when all this stops? No one will ever know, this is the 21st century and religious extremist still rule. Religion still hold center stage when the whole world is in dire need counter polution n such.
I think we're giving Islam a too big a voice in this world. We must treat all religion the same. it should no be the identity. We people should and then run to hide behind Islam, then it's because theyre cowards. They must stand for their action and be ready to die for their action.
The veil or not, isn't it what the character of a woman that matters?
Agree with that statement totally. People preach or practice things everyday. REligion is being displayed all day. but the purity within hearts are mostly lacking this days. they are just talking the talk without really proving it with the walk.
So true veil or not its the character trhat prevails and speaks betta than all these restrictions and all.
Donkeys better than wives
A textbook used at schools in Rajasthan compares housewives to donkeys, and suggests the animals make better companions as they complain less and are more loyal to their "masters," TOI reported Tuesday.
"A donkey is like a housewife ... In fact, the donkey is a shade better, for while the housewife may sometimes complain and walk off to her parents' home, you'll never catch the donkey being disloyal to his master," the newspaper reported, quoting a Hindi-language primer meant for 14-year-olds.
The book was approved by the state's Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party government but has sparked protests from the party's women's wing.
State education officials in Rajasthan, a western state known for its conservative attitude toward women, said people should not be upset by the comparison, the paper said.
"The comparison was made in good humor," state education official A.R. Khan was quoted as saying. "However, protests have been taken note of and the board is in the process of removing it (the reference)."
so.....
KeshiIiiiiii
its been soooo sooo long.
how have you been ?
u oger????
i always thought u were a princess entraped in some castle ;) and we mortals can just hear your voice... errr... uumm... err... i mean read ur blog :p
and whats this deal abt ppl rushing to be earliest commentators on ur blog. do they get a kiss from u or something ;) for being number 1
lol
h2so4 laced ;)
:p LOL
~~South
**maybe coz some of the fanatics had the fear that some other fellow jack like him might take advantage of his beautiful dame like he does all the time in the society.
ur right...it wasnt meant for all but look at how fanatic it's become!
~~Sophia
Unfortunately my punch wont do anything to change them :( These women need to fight for themselves...
~~Dawn
hey Dawn :)
**..its our unity that we are showing towards our religion
thats ridiculous! Can a piece of cloth show unity and promote true peace and freedom to all?
u r right...these women r so afraid of thier men and they dare not go against them..so they stick by it and just assume they too love doing it.
~~Ekta
**Either we can sit back and cry and accept that this is what it is--or we can learn to fight back.
true...we cant just sit n accept human rights' violations.
and ur right again...alot of us r scared to fight for it...but Im sure we can slowly educate one another...
~~Yashita
hey Good Morning Yash :)
**they all wear burqa's only wen they go to pray...otheriwse they wear everything a normal 21yr old gilr wears.
there u go! So what's the meaning of the burqa then?
**well, I think if muslim men are so horny...then they should be punished and not the women!!
ur SO RIGHT! I feel the same. Just cos some men r horny, it's not the woman's problem! Jail the b##tards.
**"The Princess" by J.P.Sasson
Gotta read it then, thanks Yash!
~~Sunita
yes every community rips apart a woman's pride and respect from time to time, but surely not to this degrading levels!
That book abt Housewives n Donkeys...did a Donkey write that?
~~Ghost_Particle
true...when will all this end...perhaps not now, but some day we hope so...
**I think we're giving Islam a too big a voice in this world. We must treat all religion the same
true...bt thats cos of all the media attention these fanatics r getting...besides they make it to the media often cos there's a real issue with fanaticism that the whole world is facing now!
Thanks for ur great thoughts.
~~Jewel_Rays
hey Amy hows u? :)
**REligion is being displayed all day. but the purity within hearts are mostly lacking this days. they are just talking the talk without really proving it with the walk.
SO TRUE! Just talking but no action at all!
~~Pallavi
hey Pallaviiiiiiii! Im well n u :) Long time indeed!
~~Burf
oger? lol what u mean? I aint a princess or an angel..Im human na :)
Keshi.
~~Burf
**coming 1st in my blog..
lol I dunno why they want to be 1st...better ask them na :)
**h2so4 laced
lol yes...a toxic kiss u bet! ;-)
Keshi.
i too have many muslim friends... i remember one friend in college... she didnt wear the burqa... but her dad wouldnt allow her to wear western outfits... n when we had sari day in college she wasnt allowed to wear that too!!!
even in india they sometimes act as if they live in the stone age... well even stone age women didnt wear 'purdah'... i know of places here where even at weddings (muslim) women r not allowed without a burqa... n there r separate rooms for men n women... even the bride n groom do not sit together for the reception... but again this is about the orthodox muslims here...
i cant beleive the way women r treated!!!... n its not always about muslims... even in hinduism... when u have ur periods u cant pray!!!... now one thing i dont understand is... periods r a natural thing for women... y cant u pray to God for a natural happening???... i dont believe in all this.. i pray as i want.. n when i want..
~~Musings
m000niiiiiiie always great to have u here muahhhhhhhhhh!
**n when we had sari day in college she wasnt allowed to wear that too
goshhhh then what the hell did she wear?? What kind of men r these manipulating innocent women's life!
**even the bride n groom do not sit together for the reception
lol sorry I find that really funny!
** periods r a natural thing for women... y cant u pray to God for a natural happening???
m000nie Im so glad u mentioned this! I still fight with my mum over this..cos it's that time of the month, we r not allowed to go to the prayer room in my home and even the temple?? I find that ridiculous and always end up fighting with mum...I do it my way anyways. Cos I know deep down that what matters is ur faith in God not the tampon lol!
Keshi.
hey Keshi
been sick and still have not recovered fully. still running a temperature actually. hope i all fades soon...
Thanks,:)
Hugggggggggggz Amy get better soon....awww...
Im not feeling that well wither :(
Keshi.
i tink M00nie will look real sexy in a burkha
wid 2 holes chest level
heyyyy M00nie
hope the water prob dont exist no more
~~Saby
u'll look good in a robot suit. Top to bottom in metal lol!
Keshi.
this isnt fair at all:((
Yesterday i was going to post a comment and the comment count was 3!
I failed in doing so cuz of a powercut and here look at the comments its 123!
Keshi this isnt good
nywz
The thing u are talking about has been uprooted not completly but yes atleast we can say someone made an effort
But if u go to pakistan or a totally muslim countries u will get to know that gals who protest against these rules are beaten too harshly sometimes even to death!
Jeez wat a shame when will these countries progress! NEVER!! wen will these ppl grow up!
~~Wanderer
hey Wandy tough luck ha...from 3 to 123...but I'd say still it's not too bad :)
** gals who protest against these rules are beaten too harshly sometimes even to death
I know..thats exactly what Im talking abt. But then cant these men be punished by some international human rights group or something? We cant let this go on just cos it's been going on for years...can we?
Keshi.
it's a bit ridiculous to cover everything and just see their eyes. most of my friends are from the middle east. those muslims from indonesia, malaysia and singapore are very modern. i had this discussion with my friend in her blog...but that's another story.
wearing a hijab doesn't mean that they're good girls. i've seen those girls that are smooching their boyfriends in public. according their law, they're not allow to do that.
but again, if you were living in the middle east. you do have to follow their custom. i mean, if i was visiting saudi. i better dress like them. i don't want to get into trouble with those men.
stoning someone to death. that's just wrong. but if you wore hijab and not following the ways of muslims. that's also a sin...
duh...what are they going to do? lock them in the house?
~~Elaine
hey Elaine u r spot on on everything u said! It's a toatl shame and hypocrisy if they wear and it and not practise good muslim ways. What's the point if they just wear it on their heads and not develop within?
** i mean, if i was visiting saudi. i better dress like them. i don't want to get into trouble with those men.
true..but even then how dare they tell us what to wear? Isnt that something we decide for ourselves?
Thanks sweety!
Keshi.
personally , i dont think it started in india .. coz i can find no real reason for it ..
in the muslim countries , the prophet's wives (he had 13) used to wear the burqa as they were considered as : " mother of worshippers " .. the rest of the women wore full covering clothes .. but not covering their faces ... this is understandable .. even the men in muslim countries wear full covering clothes to protect them from the sun and dust ...
well, gradually the rules were misused to force the women to wear what they do, today ...
so, i feel itz completely baseless calling it an indian tradition ... yes , some women in the rajasthan desert in india wear full covering clothes - but , thisi s to protect them from the sun
Pretty sad to see such comments from characters like these.. they interpret everything else apart from their own religion. which is well, quite misinterpreted and often shaped to meet impending demands.. And of course have uncivilised, idiots as their spokesmen. The bahness! :/
Women have been (and are being) treated in a sexist, abusive and offensive manner, all over the world, accross societies and religions. I personally feel that Islam (or perhaps those who claim to be guards of islam) is more stringent when it comes to being insensitive towards women.
the same is true with hinduism, though hindus worship Goddesses, but back home we keep suppressing women. they have to wear a mangal sutra, they have to wear bindi/kumkum n show that they are married. They are asked to follow rules which are made only for them and not for men. all major communities world over have a tradition that after marriage a woman has to change her last name. No big deal, i know. but these small things, which we dont even notice show that how biased our society is, and how we have accepted it as a norm.
A part of it has to do with the fact that women are the physically weaker sex, and historically have been dependent on men for their livelyhood. now that things are changing, some mindsets are changing too.. but there are too many minds which still need a change in thinking. It'll take time, a long time, social evils groomed over ages can not be changed over night. but the voices raised, like this blog post, will prove a small but effective step towards realising that dream towards a society without sexual bias...
''Old law'' mandated that a woman cover her head.
Jesus came and fulfilled the old law.
I think a woman should not have to cover herself now.
i lose my way here trying to comment!! :) anyway..i was lost till today..there is a keshi..and a kesi in blogoland! and i realised its two different people only today! :) both are amazing though.
it's jsut so horrible. i dont' have words to express it. reminds me of the taliban regime.. the world and especially the muslim world.. y do they want to keep women behind closed doors all the time? why can't they let us live, feel, breathe!
You know i went to the old delhi side one day and i was amazed to see so many women wearing a burqa.. you don't see it in other parts of delhi.. i felt so suffocated just being there..
i have muslims girl friends and they dont do any of this....
and u know what...religion is created by men and mouldede and changed to suit them....its weird....
i usually prefer to stay away from topics relating to politics and religion....it can get ugly ..u know...
Did you know that, nowhere in the Quran are the women asked to cover their faces? And yet men will force women to cover their faces in the name of religion. And these very men may not be following any of the things that men are supposed to follow according to their religion. Its the height of hypocrisy.
Talk about being famous! I've never seen so many comments for a single post!!! What do you do girl? Magic?? :)
well well, maybe I didn't quite make myself clear #-o, as always
my point is that, if 100 people of another religion come to you and say that you should no longer follow ur religion coz its ridiculous / profane in their opinion, would you yield to it?
I wouldn't, coz I'v got the right to live. And your point is that those women are not given that right. Agreed :).
How often in history have you seen one country fight for the independence of another? And how conducive is it on the whole?
I am not saying what they do is justified, IMHO IT IS DARN HIDEOUS!!!
Curing the symptoms is not good enough, and is only a temporal solution for a few lucky. The cause for this is their beliefs in such, which if mended can help the whole.
Educating people one thing, and inciting them into rebellion is another ;).
It is like asking all non-veggie ppl to turn veggie coz the world is in shortage of NV fud :).
Change requires time. And the most difficult thing to do on the face of earth is to change peoples mind. Hitler was somehow way too gud @ that 8->.
Cheer
heyy! :-)
hope you are having a great day.
who said this?
i meant some ppl have such ideas. wanted to know what you think. :-)
This was a fantastic post! I am so glad to hear the people are thinking about this topic. :)
The East and the West both have ultra-traditional , ultra-conservative , ultra-control nut jobs . I love the female form . I guess you already knew that ? To cover that form because women will be raped is "senile" ! I've been to nude beaches , party bars , red light districts all over the World and find them safer than anywhere in the "Arab World" ! Islamic and Christian conservative men are sexually repressed , dangerous ,and crazed and should be put in there place . IN THE PAST !
~Deepa
hey Deepz :)
**in the muslim countries , the prophet's wives (he had 13) used to wear the burqa as they were considered as : " mother of worshippers " ..
Wel this man should be called the Father of polygamy then...gosh 13 wives?? It's ok for men to do sleep ard woth 13 women and it's so not ok for women to even show their face? This is worse than hypocrisy..it's a CRIME.
Thanks for that info abt the burqa Deepz, u know alot :)
~~Prmod_Bafna
hey hows u? Long time :)
**which is well, quite misinterpreted and often shaped to meet impending demands..
But why is it so extreme only in Islam?
~~Amitken
hey Amit u make so much sense...wow that was a very good comment.
** No big deal, i know. but these small things, which we dont even notice show that how biased our society is, and how we have accepted it as a norm.
So true...we dun even realise it. I have often thought why we have to take the man's name after getting married...it's silly.
**social evils groomed over ages can not be changed over night. but the voices raised, like this blog post, will prove a small but effective step towards realising that dream towards a society without sexual bias...
so true...we may sound like just preachers here but Im sure these great thoughts from so many of u will make some change in some ppl's minds...
Ty Amit!
~~Phred
**''Old law'' mandated that a woman cover her head.
Jesus came and fulfilled the old law.
what d u mean? Did Jesus say so too?
~~Mind_Curry
lol aww did u get lost :)
**there is a keshi..and a kesi in blogoland!
is there a Kesi? thats great! I better check her out then na...give me her address :)
~~Neha
thats cos fanatic Muslim men think women r servants and sex objects...thats abt it.
**.. i felt so suffocated just being there..
lol I feel the same when I see a woman in a burqa, especially in Summer, usually I feel sorry for her...
~~Alice
yep even my Muslim friends dun wear it...and they too think it's ridiculous.
**i usually prefer to stay away from topics relating to politics and religion
hehe thanks anyways Alice!
~~Suji
hey Suji hows u?
**Did you know that, nowhere in the Quran are the women asked to cover their faces?
Really? Thats news! I thought the Quran stated that...
**And these very men may not be following any of the things that men are supposed to follow according to their religion.
ur right...these very men r the horny wud-be-rapists if they see the skin of a woman...so they get them to cover. HYPOCRISY in first order!
~~Elisa
hey girl I got what u mean :) No worries hehehe. I know that many American women r like men now...mentally too tough. And that can be quite unfortunate. Cos a woman has to be a woman, not a man. U raised a very valid point Elisa.
Ty so much n hugggggggggz!
~~Shivangi
hey Shivangi WC :) and thanks!
**What do you do girl? Magic??
lol no magic...just a simple girl with very simple thoughts :)
~~Samy
oh ok :) I got ya...u got a point...a country cant change another country....
but Im talking abt human rights Samy and it should be universal na?
~~Sittingnut
some ppl hehehe :) well as men and women we all have out own strengths and weaknesses...and to say that women r emotionally stronger is quite true and not a sexist thing to say na? Cos women r made that way. And men r physically stronger than women cos men r made that way...and it's not a sexist thing to say either...
am I wrong? :)
~~ChelseaJean
hey Chelsea hows ya girl?
**I am so glad to hear the people are thinking about this topic
yes I want ppl to think abt this and talk abt it openly w.o. being worried of hurting anyone...after all there r so many women hurting and suffering alone and we need to address their issues...who cares abt ppl who think we r hurting their pride?
thanks :)
~~WallyCrawler
hey Wally!
**I love the female form . I guess you already knew that ?
hell I know that lollll!
**and find them safer than anywhere in the "Arab World" !
so true..I could safely walk ard in Kings Cross (red light area in Sydney) than I think I'd be able to in a street in Audi Arabia or Iran...
**Islamic and Christian conservative men are sexually repressed , dangerous ,and crazed and should be put in there place . IN THE PAST !
U r so right! But the most frightening thing is that these men r coming out of nowhere these days and it seems to increase!
Keshi.
well....... i just dun no how to explain it thu i wish i did
hey !
am I wrong? :)
probably :-)
bc imo when we group ppl together based on sex and pronounce judgment it is sexist.
anyway that not the topic here sorry to take you off on a tangent :-)
hugggz!
,wally crawler, (and other creepy reptiles),
God has no hang ups on sex
Solomon was rewarded by God wid a harem of 100 women
Jesus didnt preach a word on sexual matters
except to save Mary Magdalene who was being stoned to death (as per the law of Moses) for adulterey
let the one who has no sin cast the first stone
Well i'll be damned !
she is going for a double century dis time
--Suniieee
Until u help urself by startung to love urself and take good care of ur body n soul, no one else can help u or even begin to help u...
~~Sittingnut
:)
**bc imo when we group ppl together based on sex and pronounce judgment it is sexist.
there r indeed many emotional and physical differences between men and women...we cant deny that fact, can we? grouping ppl based on gender and highlighting their basic and vey obvious differences isnt sexist...cos it isnt humilating anyone or violating anyone's rights is it? atleast imo that what I think :)
we can agree to disagree here hehehehe...
~~Saby
hello Saby :)
**except to save Mary Magdalene who was being stoned to death (as per the law of Moses) for adulterey
Jesus didnt preach anything abt sexual matters? thats interesting...
Keshi.
okie. looks like only we are the one discussing and debating how women are treated, veils blah blah blah. my middle-east fren thinks its absolutely alrite for them to wear it! and for them, veils are worn to 'protect' them. yet, she claimed that its their culture and has nothing to do with islam. she wears black veils covering part of her face & long dresses, but inside the veil, u can actually find a modern woman wearing guess jeans! anyway, i'm glad she has removed the cloth covering her face since she landed in malaysia :)
hugss
=am000nie=
~~Amutha
oh thanks Amu for that info...but what's still in question is that if she thinks it's protecting her and a symbol of her culture etc why did she remove it now?
:)
Keshi.
Anyways I know I shouldnt be questioning their freedom...what matters is that the veil really stands for it both in and out...
Thanks all for the contirbution...it was a very interesting one :)
Keshi.
keshi
Jesus told me (when i was pissed drunk)
Saby,
just love me and love your neighbour as much as i love u
and u can burn the whole fucking bible if it tells u otherwise
dont lissen to the burning BUSH
~~Saby
**Jesus told me (when i was pissed drunk)
were u sure it was Jesus then? Cos u were drunk na..lol...
I know wut u mean...luv thy neighbour...but how hard it is for so many ppl to do...sad!
Keshi.
Somehow I feel that the men who blame women all the time, should take a look at themselves.
For men who treated women as sex objects, the men are what they have shown themselves to be; their brains can't do much except think of sex. They should be termed animal-without-self-control, animal-guided-sex-not-brain.
Well Kesh,
I think seeing the current environment in India, men were quite intelligent to veil females. Its coz of immense pollution around here that males asked female to veil. Male didn't veil coz now someone has to see before walking ;).
Sorry that was on the lighter side Keshigurl.
But its really a pathetic idea to do that with females, coz doing that had not stopped any evils like abuse, rape, teasing etc with female, then definitely there is something wrong with the process.
So naturally it is a wrong idea to veil the female. I feel these days percentage of males forcing to go for burkhas is reducing. Its only in rural or backward part which is also getting revolutionised and changing. Thats somewhat of scenario i think prevailing in India.
Dunno much bout other parts of world like Middle-east.
You take up hot topics and discuss. You are bold and Hope so beautiful. :)
This is really a curse on women.
These women who wear pardas are even prone to many disorders beacause of vitamin D deficiency which occurs due to lack of sunlight exposure. They follow strict traditions and some are even horrifying like the talak one. Very sad :( to find such things do exist in this century.
True...i have heard tht in some countries, the women wear the most revealing clothes, shorts and the sexy types n cover it up with a Purdha...I feel bad for them....it's not their wish...it is something that is being instigated on them in the name of religion....You have a good post here!
some people choose to cover themselves up... and that should be respected... itz not about women being slaves or anything its abt trying to keep your self covered from the eyes of men out there... but then again everyone has their own way of interpreting it... veil is not something that makes women supressed or anything its like an identity and if people want to follow it well let them be we can criticize it...
itz always good to think of humanity and how we should have EQUITY not EQUALITY... :)
and covering one self up is also for men... but not the head because women can attract beauty and its believed that a man should fall for a woman's character not looks... its always easy to blame a group and swear at them or not... but have you seen muslim women have huge rights and when they get married they dont pay dowry or what ever those things are... I respect all religions and cultures and I think everyone else should have the tolerance to do so too....
sometimes its not about proving things it about looking at something from someone else's perspective... ciao
Came at random to your blog and found your post interesting. Unfortunately women are treated as second class citizens in some countries; regardless of their religion. There are all sorts of inequalities in this world! What can you do? Try to spread awareness ...
~~Queen_Bee
**their brains can't do much except think of sex. They should be termed animal-without-self-control, animal-guided-sex-not-brain.
lol u made ma laugh so much! So true..I agree 100% with ya! If Muslim men r so horny, then they ought to be punished, not the women...
~~Het_Waghela
lol @Male didn't veil coz now someone has to see before walking! hahahah Het!
hey u wouldnt believe it, but even in Aus, many many many Muslim women wear the Burqa/Hijab...there r so many issues in schools and public places...and also now that terrorism is on the rise, it has become a huge security issue too...
~~Susubala
Smui I dun get it either..if a veil on the head denotes a woman's purity, what abt smoking with that on?
~~Aizwaikcha
that must be so sad to get diseases cos of a veil..not getting enough sunlight etc...and imagine the heat?
~~Scribblez_to_wakeup
hey WC Scribblez and thanks!
**the women wear the most revealing clothes, shorts and the sexy types n cover it up with a Purdha.
so true...they do the same thing here in Aus...wear the hijab and smoke, wear short tight clothes...whats the point?
~~Brian
hey Brian WC and thank u! I will drop in at ur blog soon :)
~~SMZ
I totally agree with on the point that we should respect all faiths and practices...but not when it violates womens'/human rights..what say?
~~Noblese
hey WC Noblese and thanks!
yes the least we could do is spread the awareness...
Keshi.
http://unameitjack.blogspot.com/2006/04/un-veiled-thru-my-eyes.html
PPL plz read Jackal's latest comment...it's written as a result to 'Whispers of a Veil' post I did last week...now there have been few ppl who r hurt by my post and some comments here...Im sorrry but I dun take a single word back cos I said what I honestly felt abt it. It was not abt any Muslim but was abt the fanatics...so if u r hurt by it, I cant help it. Im sorry.
Keshi.
I'm with u on this girl...100%!! I feel sorry for women who still have to follow the veil system.
~~Twisted_Truth
:)
~~Icy_Blue
thanks Icy! It's sad yeah...
Keshi.
sad state :)
hi keshi!
I am from Pakistan,came across your website via CONFUSED website which was referred on karachi metroblog.
Well first of all The image you put on your website is NOT hijab at all,go to link (http://www.tf.uio.no/nettlaering/grafikk/f-hijab.jpg) to see actual Hijab which dont restrict to hide face anyway.
-2nd concept of Hijab not islamic invention,christian and hindu books did preach about Hijab so it cant be labeled as Islamic product.
-3rd you posted a women pic which is clothless and verses written on her back,well its pretty lame,if i show a picture of nude woman having words like Om printed on her back,will it be considered compatible to hindu belief(Remember MF hussien was threatened when he painted nude saraswati).
so Burqa(hijab+veil for face) is typical Asian product,no relation with Islam.
for guys who talks about Fatwa,Fatwa doesnt mean punishment,fatwa means suggestion for reaching upto some decision.
tata
Keshi why i have feelings that you won't like to listen the other side?:> you have yet not approved me.Anyway i dont care atleast you read,that matters here:>,I didnt read all 160 comments coz it takes time but almost every hindu frinds of yours have zero Idea of Islam as well as Hinduism,it could be nice if would have made a research on your own religion and know what actually it talks about.
BTW: Visit the following link.You will learn a lot,IT was written by a Hindu lady with reference so that noone can deny:)
http://www.geocities.com/realitywithbite/hindu.htm#1
p.s:if you make comments on my post(Relevent I must say),I won't delete your post at all:),i can listen others:) because if I dont allowothers,how would I learn something new?I will eb stupid if I just rely on my knowledge and dont listen others.
reagarding your comment,muslims men are horny,my dear girl do you wana say that all hindu women are rapped and killed by different means are due to muslim men?:),think again!! *smirk*
Men and women have some default characterstics which are universal and cant be changed anyway.you may blame God that why did he do that.
my blog url is http://kadnan.blogspot.com
~~Smiley
thanks!
~~Adnan_Siddiqi
Hey Adnan WC! And plz dun be so quick to judge me saying I wont publish all comments etc...Im not online 24/7 to publish comments as soon as they r entered by ppl...when I get time I publish all the 'decent' comments (I reject abuse) and the reason why there must have been a delay in ur comment appearing here is cos I publish only when I log in...and that could take couple of hours from the time u commented.
Abt the this post...it seems that many Muslims here have taken this post completely wrong and r running ard being worked up as it was abt Islam. It wasnt. It was abt the Fanatics and if u aint one of them, this post shouldnt bother u so much. If someone came and told me abt Hindu fanatics, I wouldnt feel threatened at all and na I wouldnt try to defend Hinduism. Fanaticism is stupid irrelevant of faith.
I will check ur links soon...thanks for dropping by and thanks for ur time Adnan.
Keshi.
hi keshi!
i was kinda in hurry 2 judge u,i apologize for that,as i read someone's commenton CONFUSED blog who were complaining that u banned his/her post so i had a feeling that i would be treated similarly:)
yes i am not bothered,i am not even bothered what you think of Islam or pardah or how do you interpretate it,after reading your post,i discovered that you dont have enough knowledge about Islam that you can talk about it(referring some of your comments about pardah/burqa or muslim men are horny and those totally irrelevent images).
yes i agree,fanatics are everywhere so in pakistan or in Islam,for many muslims,I would be a kafir,for many hindus some enlightened hindu would be a *paapi*,it is like a group of INdians despise pakistan or pakistanis and force others to follow same path.Same ppl are here as well.
You might have read RSS chielf Sudhashan's statment about giving birth many hindu kids since muslims are getting in majority in India.If i see Hinduism through the eyes of that guy then for me Hinduism is the most pathetic religion on face of earth,but will I be considered sane enough?as i dindt read source i saw a religon with in a MAN only.There are several gaps which need to be filled.
~~Adnan_Siddiqi
:) this aint a Islam VS Hinduism war...looks like u have taken it that way and I cant do anything abt that...sorry mate, no further discussions with ya on this, cos there's a limit to trying to explain the point of this post too...and I think Im exhausted trying to make u u'stand that it's not abt Islam.
Thanks anyways Adnan!
Keshi.
with reference 2 images you posted on your post and with reference to your comment replies to others.Why dontyou get it on first place?
no i am not hindu hater too ,many of my indian friends are hindu and we are fine with each other.You are against pardah i know and i am saying why it is NOT evil at all.I prefer hijab which i showed u in a picture,nothing wrong in it and women have been observin vield since ages before Islam.You dont need to make me understand at all as its irrelevent.My reason was here not to offend you but to let u know that pardah is NOT evil anyway,you should spend time with women who observe hijab rather keep writing here.
did you ever write about nuns?why do they cover their heads?you should be fair enough with all communities:)
/rgds
~~Adnan_Siddiqi
Adnan I know ur aint a Hindu-hater...what Im trying to say is this is not abt comparing all traditions of all faiths. This post was only abt the Veil and the punishments that innocent women get if they DONT WANNA wear it...I cant understand why u cant get that point.
Nuns wear the veil on their own accord when they have given up on worldy pleasures and plan to spend the rest of their lives in isolation and prayer. btw no one punishes them either :)
~~Miriam
Hi Miriam WC and thanks for ur input here! What a war it has been when it was only a question abt human rights lol!
**Anyway how can you tell a woman that Islam does not allow you to drive when there were no cars invented at the advent of Islam?
Good Q. it shows that fanatic build their own law to suit themselves...
**Of course most of them are now migrating to the west and its kinda getting out of hand.
true...but they practise it here too and it's ok if they r peaceful and dun violate human rights...thats what I meant.
Thanks for the links..will check it out soon :)
Keshi.
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