Monday, August 8

Till death do us part...

I was reading an article where it stated that the latest trend among couples in the US is changing their wedding vows to suit their preferences. This shift from traditional vows to something personally fitting could very well be due to the fact that many marriages in this era end up in bitter divorces or separations that end up in lengthy legal battles to settle scores. The traditional upto-the-grave vow 'Till death do us part' is now being rapidly altered to vows like 'For as long as we continue to love each other', 'For as long as our love shall last', 'For as long as our marriage shall serve the greatest good' and even 'Until our time together is over'. Now some may see this as quite realistic because nowadays almost everything is being altered to adjust to the rapidly changing social trends, hence it's a tad unrealistic to make such a 'grave' promise :) that one may not be able to keep. Also people come from different backgrounds and have various experiences that lead them to have different beliefs. However I say this switch is a sure recipe for failure. My point is that if you want to alter the traditional vow that has been there for so many centuries to something new that keeps you on the safe side, then is there real love in it at all? I think that's being cautious while expecting disaster, isn't it? Love is such a sacred feeling and marriage is a sacred bond knitted by that love and continues to be knitted as years pass by, through both good and bad times. Now I do understand that nothing is certain in life and people change too. However changing the wedding vows to be on the safe side even before you have tread the shores of married life is like taking Panadol before u get the flu :) It's keeping yourself well wide open incase it doesn't work - isn't that like being noncommital in a committed relationship?

Anyways I also read about a newly-married couple who changed the traditional vow to a breath-taking 'For all the days of our lives'! The bride stated 'I didn't want us to say 'until death do us part', I believe in heaven and that we will be together after we die. I kind of went the other way'. And she is no love-fool because she is a matured lady and is a Psychology student (Phd) at a reputed university in the US. So yes there are people who go to the other extreme too and I personally think that they are the ones who are really in love and understand the depth of marriage, even if their marriage failed 2years later. What matters is that right now you feel completely committed to that person because you're going to marry him/her!
I know that Hindu/Buddhist and most other weddings don't include verbal vows but what are your thoughts on this according to your cultural wedding customs? Should people go and change traditional vows to suit the times and personal preferences or should they say 'till death do us part' and stick by that even when they are 75 and may have to puke before thinking of a romantic night-out..lol no offense to anyone, just a wicked joke :) Shower me with your wisdom now.

74 Cranium Signets:

Arz000n said...

Me here first...
Woooo...Hooooo!!!

Arz000n said...

US is changing their wedding vows to suit their preferences.
Do you mean customised marriage vows?? Wooow...didnt knew that customization has affected vows too..hehehe

My point is that if you want to alter the traditional vow that has been there for so many centuries to something new that keeps you on the safe side, then is there real love in it at all?
Consider this...you all sorts of vows during the marriage...and you just stop luving each other. Does that mean the vows taken in front of holy spirits failed?? Naah.

isn't that like being noncommital in a committed relationship?
Yuppp...truly said here k000kie.

Hindu marriages rituals are very lengthy and they trouble each and every GOD mentioned in Holy books during the marriage process....and list of promises taken is...Oh boy!! Thanks to Bollywood movies here for helping me out.

But I seriously think for a marriage to work successfully...all these things really doesnt matter. The only thing that is important is the love between 2 entities involved. The vows taken might be used as a "fear-factor" to keep the marriage going.

Vinu said...

First of all the system of vow is full of pretensions. When a couple is taking vow in front of church, seldom they are assured how they are gonna keep their promise alive.

Those were days when marriage was thought as a custom and when religions were to guide people towards right.

But now, the entire attitude towards marriage is changing in the society. Those days a thought about a divorce or second marriage was a taboo. But nowadays when living together comfortably rather than living compramisingly is important, these change of trends doesnt surprise me.

Marriage is sacred. but if conditions come such that we cant go ahead, due to some or the other reason, getting apart is the best option. THis is in the condition i am saying.

So that time its better not to get entangled with the vows like 'till our death' and all...

Anyways for me all these vows are immaterial since the one whom am going to hav as partner will be knowg me and vice versa...Till i find such a girl..no marriage..hehe

Autumn Storm said...

Just an ol' romantic at heart, I am firm believer in for better, for worse, in sickness, in health until death do us part. The wedding vow changes began, if I am not mistaken, as the words for the bride were different to the grooms. The two (only 2, I think) were the bride promised to obey the husband, and at the end, they were pronounced Man and Wife. Divorce is much too easy nowadays - but there are both pros and cons. Women and men are able to live independent lives, raise children and support themselves without a husband, and therefore divorce can be an escape from a marriage made in hell. On the other hand, too many times, couples do not try as hard as they might to work out their problems.
I have not heard of the more cynical vows that you mention, such as 'For as long as our love shall last', but that is to me, just plain wrong. As you say, "that's being cautious while expecting disaster". Its like having a back-up plan, it kills the need to succeed.
As always, Keshi, you have written a great essay on an interesting topic. Go, Keshi, Go, Keshi, Go, Keshi....

Jim said...

wonder what autumn is saying?



i bet she means 'boot keshi out'
'boot keshi out'

Thë Icè Þr¡ñce§§ said...

grrrrrrrrrrrrr...
me mad kesh..
i said i wud be mad
so me really mad..
grrrr.. no fair i was sleeping. will read ya post later. gotta go to skool.

peace out
^_^

Jim said...

wonder why this guy above is rejoicing?


thought there were prizes for endurance


not 'first in' 'first out'
aint dat right Monsieur Pithly?

musings (m000nie) said...

k00kieeee happy frienship day.. i know it is belated but was a tad busy... naah nott work... serious work... was out 'shopping'..hehe

n abt this post... hindu vows of marriages mite not b verbal but the 7 pheras mean so many things...

1st phera means : "With our God as our guide, let us now take the first step to live with honour and respect. Let us walk together so we may get food.".

2nd means : "Let us be happy and enjoy our life. Let us walk together so we may grow together in strength."

3rd means : "Let us share our joys and pains together. Let us walk together so we may get wealth."

4th means : "Let us not forget our parents and elders. Let us walk together so we may find happiness by sharing our joys and sorrows."

5th means : "Let us observe all acts of charity. Let us walk together so we may have family."

6th means : "Let us live a long and peaceful life together. Let us walk together so we may have joy."

7th means : (groom to the bride) "With seven steps we have become friends. Let me reach your friendship. Let me not be severed from your friendship. Let your friendship not be severed from me."

isnt this the crux of all wonderful marital relationships????

Autumn Storm said...

Jim - you have to imagine me making circular motions with my arms and bopping out my bottom :-)

--pearl-- said...

keshu those words sounds exactly like sumthin an indian women would say... :)

see u know how with changing times u need to change company laws,wages etc,the same way people there think that they need to move on with the trend.But then there is this difference...dats USA n this is india...competely different cultures.Having stayed with 2 american families(1yr) and obviously my own (indian) family i understand exactly wat ur sayin...But then thier culture is different..they actully divorce as soon as they get fed-up,whereas an indian couple will keep fighting but a divorce is still sumthin rare..
so yes i think mayb in d american culture thats a better option to make personalized vows,coz atleast then wen u get divorced u dun have d guilt...but then an indian doin sumthin like dat ...would be sumthin difficult to accept n even d families will think he/she has sum other intentions...(whether he/she actully does/does not is sumthin different)

Paul said...

How about, "I'll love you forever till somebody new comes along" - from the Eagles, "New Kid in Town" - I think that was the song title. A seventies band. I mean, if people want to go for realism...

It does seem to me that loosening up the language is lowering the expectations, but it would have to be a personal choice.

Invincible said...

so me 12th :(

does it really matter ?
Till this does apart or that does apart .. what matters is the actual length of the relationship n not wot one has promised during the holy and 'ostensible' ceremony.

Sometimes this change of vow can be just another attempt to 'show off'.
Weren't there divorces in US when ppl used to swear their marriage till death ? or for those who vow till death (actually death is just death of the body.. ahem ahem), does their nuptial relationship last till death ?

The depth in relationships doesnt depend on wot u've promised that time.

And yes, in new era, everything boils down to convenience.

I think one can follow all the 7 w/o swearing at them .. even w/o marrying :) :)

Jim said...

, , There has been a change in guard guys

ITCC CHAIRMAN
, ,

Justin Thyme said...

Interesting concept, Keshi... I guess one would first have to define the meaning of traditional vows. Traditional "Christian" vows may be completely different from traditional "Jewish" vows, or those of Buddhists, or even traditional Native American vows... good food for thought, though.

Dawn....सेहर said...

I think the traditional vows are..basically the mind thing..it gives a peace of mind...but otherwise I think if the minds n hearts have met already then...its mere a tradition...!!!

Hence if I will marry I want the ritual to take place :D...lol

good topic keshi :)

Trée said...

Don't know about changing vows, but sometimes I think me and the missy will part ways at death--not a natural death that is, but at the hands you each others--lol.

Vivhyd said...

keshi.. I read about it too.. in a way u knw its marriage of convenience here sometimes.. even with the Gay Marriage etc.. so not a big deal with vow of convenience.. atleast some are gonna be frank.. as long as love lasts hahaha//

Me for one always see the concept of marriage here with suspicion.. ya there are successful marriages but many don't have one and its not a big deal.. u know.. hmm

good post again.. keep it gng

jkhkhjkh said...

Well, I'm not sure where the concept of parting at death came from. I mean, how do you know?

jkhkhjkh said...

Jeemm, I did take the luxurious stand of being the last in, but was told to take a hike.

Jim said...

i will stand by u Monsieur Pithly
if u stand by me

Jim said...

u want to know
who i am?

or do u just want to know
who am i ?

Keshi said...

lolz aww z000nie is first again...hmm Icy is gonna hack me to death now :(
~~k000kie runs n hides inside a cardboard box...

@z000nie
**Consider this...you all sorts of vows during the marriage...and you just stop luving each other. Does that mean the vows taken in front of holy spirits failed??..
hmm no I dun mean that...I see ur pint tho...but wut I mean is if u have decided to get married to someone, u should SEE it as a committed r'ship from the day u get married hai na, instead of having emergency plans?

k000kie-with-a-bible ;-)

4u2nvau/Rohit said...

Im not married, I wouldn't know :)

Keshi said...

Hey Vinu I totally agree with ur n z000nie's views...no one needs the assurance of a vow to make a marriage work. But what I'm saying is when ppl do get married n if they r going ahead with the vows etc etc then they should respect what it's meaning n values as much as they should respect marriage, rather than altering the vows to suit their future plans...

Thanks alot of ur great insight Vinu.

Hey Autumn hows ya babez?
@Just an ol' romantic at heart, I am firm believer in for better, for worse, in sickness, in health until death do us part....
Way to go hunnz! I'm the same...and old-fashioned new-age babez :) I agree nowadays couples dun try hard...they just look for easy-way-out too much n in that process they lose the entire culture of what marriage should be. Thanks for ur great words Autumn as always u come up with very interesting views n great wisdom.

lol Jim aww she dus not mean that...she's a cool Autumn breeze that always brings feel-good vibes to me :)

Keshi.

Keshi said...

lolz Icy awwwwwwwww huggggggggz! First or last to comment ur always the hottie...know that gurl :) ok come bak n pour ur wise words here sweety.

m0000nieeeeeeeeee muuuuahhhhhz! Missed ya heaps! omggg m000nie first time I ever got an English translation of Hindu wedding vows - thankzzzzzzzz! That's awesome n so beautifully put! Verbal or not they rock! Well I must say I've been to many Hindu weddings but apart from the brahmin priests murmuring mantras and me getting bored n wanting food badly lol, I never knew what they really mean...thanks for that info! z000nie Im sure u agree with me here abt the long Hindu weddings lol!

~~k000kie hugggz m000nie n becums a strawberry cookie :)

Keshi said...

lol Pearly I'm a typical Indian woman who no matter what will end up being a devoted feet-kissing, lamp-lighting wife to her husband one day ha...hahahaha!

Well-analysed Pearly! As always u have a different n insightful view of all my posts...thanks! It's true that's it's very culture-oriented. If ur yank I dun think it's a big deal to change vows cos marriage aint considered all that a big deal there.

Yep Paul it's realism...n I know that song - lovely number by the Eagles! Well yes I guess it's ok for the Westerners...but Indians would never do that becos they're too rich in culture n too proud of it to lessen it's values...like Pearly says they may end up fighting but a divorce/separation is not even dreamed of at the time of marriage.

Keshi.

Keshi said...

v000nie very interesting view. Well I sort of agree with u - especially when u say that it doesnt matter wut vows u take but what really matters is the love 2 ppl share n it remains even after death. But wut Im trying to say is if u decide to take the vows in church or in temple, then u might as well respect it and do the right thing...instead of making it a fashion event or a convenient one...wut say? besides if marriage is also seen through the eyes of convenience then there's not going to be much value in it, is there?

Keshi.

Keshi said...

True Justin...however most of em means 'till death do us part' or 'for better or for worse' or something on those lines.

Dawn spot on! wow I was amazed at how u put it all together so cleverly. Thanks!

lolllz Tre hahaha! C'mon dun temme it's that bad lol!

Yep Vivhyd...it's not a big deal but sometimes that's where the problem is...not considering something like marriage as a big deal :)

True Pithaly well-said. Now wut r u n Jim upto? lol!

NV u cant escape this post ny saying u aint married yet...neither am I duhhh...c'mon temme wut u think.

Thanks all!
Keshi.

saby said...

forget NV Kesh,
i saw his palm
somebody is gonna push him in Mithi river


and he cant swim
he only nos how to drown

saby said...

if u dont want me
take Diffy

to be yr lawful wedded hubby










but i suspect he is gay
and i just mite propose
i am bi-

saby said...

... and it's not culture hunny
indian guys are just plain dumb in bed







ask Caraf she nos

jkhkhjkh said...

Well, its like this: I bring out the best in Jeemm, and he brings out the worst in me. Is true too.

saby said...

see wat i mean !

tulipspeaks said...

well..i certainly not aware of this trend..it is not something we often come across in Malaysia..thank you keshi, for the info :)

Personally for me, vows reflects the couple's desire to stay together..if not forever, at least..till the love is still alive..so, having 'customised' marriage vows are not something that should be frown upon..

Hindu weddings never failed to 'entertain' me..Till now, i don't understand most of the rituals held during the ceremony..am still learning!!

by the way, musings..this is the very first time i get to understand the meaning of the 7 pheras (although we only have 3 in tamil weddings)..thank you :)

Keshi said...

lolz Saby :)

hehehe Pithaly....

Hey Amu hows ya? Yep mebbe for the Americans it aint a big deal to change the vows...

Thanks all!
Keshi.

Arz000n said...

The only thing I enjoy, if I'm attending any marriage ceremony, (no I dont like those typical hindu weddings of knocking doors of holy spirits), is the time when the priest says, "Now you can kiss the bride" Hehehe...

Yes truly said K000kie.

One more thing here I wud like say is, does Marriage ONLY means committed relationship? I mean, Im sure there are couples who are not married yet but are commited to each other. Right?

Why?? coz they are in true luv. They understand what the importance of each other in a relationship.

Marriage is mainly a SOCIETY thingy so that "this" relationship is have some name and certificate to put before everyone.

saby said...

i been to a shrink
i now am qualified to be a shrink too




i give prescrition to z00nie, m99nie, r00nie, shit00e, and the rest of IT gang

saby said...

go to www.kamasutra.com
or log into SEX COUNSELLOR, my clinic

saby said...

u too Kesh

and dont go eeeeeewwww
like dat dumb mangy used to do

till she went to US of A
and gott preg

Thë Icè Þr¡ñce§§ said...

kesshiiiiiiiiiiiii..
m finally posting..
my last post for tonite,

well lets see wat we have here. hmmm we got stuff on marraige and the rituals, and the new changing in church weddings.
oh by the way, moooniee u really made me smarter den i was yesterday, i always wondered wat the pheras meant. but now i know. it all makes sense now.
well me myself i love muslim weddings. so much goes on. takes a week to finish one wedding, if you do every little function thingie possible. i just love it. but its my own personal oppinion. in christian weddings i like the gowns oo. o so pretty. else they are sooo simple to me. hindu weddings-hmm i think 7 phera s really neat. uffff i just went blank, nothing comin to my mind, but i know wat i like. will post on it wen it comes to my head.
and yaah, wid the vows- really dun have much oppinion it. sumtimes they are really touchin so i like em, sumtimes they aint. so it all depends on how they are written.
will be backk
peace out
^_^
ND KESH. kookiee dearest, i can write humongous posts for ya. and comments. and lots and lots of kisses and hugzz. and u ask wat u want.

Keshi said...

hehehe z000nie but ur not allowed to kiss the bride...just that groom only lol! I agree that marriage aint the only committed r'ship on Earth...there r couples living together n happier than even a married couple. But wut I'm trying to say it that when u DO decide to tie the knot and take the vows, then u should do it the right way, with due respect for a committed r'ship :)


lol Saby tell me 3 good reasons why should I log into that site?

Kesh.

Jim said...

save some for me too

Jim said...

i will tell
Jim knows too

1. ur Indian origin
2. u used to think kissing the guy would give u babies
3. Coz ur u

Jim said...

oyeee bostiao !
ayen rite sangla nuin?

Jim said...

ani kidde sangu tuka
tee bail maka pon line marta





oye re ti Janice

Jim said...

ti bail hott
Chris baher gelo mista

Keshi said...

lol icy I sense that ur really sleepy n that u havent really read this long long post .... hehe. Hey just have a good sleep n come bak to it later gurl :)

hugggz!
Keshi.

Keshi said...

jim u sound alot like Saby hmmmm??

Keshi.

saby said...

i no
the bastard has copied my style

saby said...

mai zounicho!
foddhya,
aun tujo khailo kapun ditolo Keshi che hathin

saby said...

just ignore hin guys,
dont give him lift

he is a smooth talker
he is riding the sympathy wave

alcoholic ??
W T F !

all goyenkars are

Keshi said...

na na its u saby lol!

Keshi said...

IF UR ABT TO COMMENT HERE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ADVERTISING UR PRODUCT, PLZ STOP RIGHT THERE AND FIND SOME OTHER PLACE, THANKS!

KESHI.

julia said...

Buy NIRODH
have a colorful and safe nite


u never can be too sure

PuNeEt said...

I don’t think u need more wisdom… with what u have already, u r posting such heavy doses… gosh what will happen if u’ll have more… stay happy with what u have…
;-)
Ha ha ha hahahahahhaa
CHILL (huggggzzzzzz)

Another good post dear…

Shift from traditional vows in US…
they abide them also… that’s a news
Why are they even taking troubles of getting married?

'For as long as our love shall last' … this shows the insecurity and the lack of confidence…

I believe… enter a relationship with a fear of its breaking and it wont ever survive…
Its just the difference between playing to win and playing not to loose…

I don’t say traditions are perfect… but to change the very crux of a tradition is dicey…
If for better, traditions have to be changed, I would love that change…

I’m not a very traditional kind of guy... I do respect them but my decisions are based on my judgement and my feelings… unfortunately traditions don’t have a role to play in it…

But this kind of change only shows lack of commitment.

Smilzzzzzzz n Hugggzzzzzzz

Puneet

Manish said...

In India people marry first & then fall in love in most of the cases!

so ur topic regarding marriage vows is a bit irrelevant in the indian context!

We go for those saat phere even without knowing abt our partner so who remembers what mariiage vows we have undertaken!

The concept of marriage in our subcontinent is an interesting phenomena and it is based more on tradition rather than love. In other words LOVE is a byproduct of marriage.Sounds weird! Isn't it?

I will suggest u to read this book in ur spare time from Penguin by

Spouse: The Truth About Marriage by Shobhaa Dé
http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/FreeChapters/

Keshi said...

oii Puneet lol I need more wisdom sweety or else I'd have forgotten my brekky today...mum had to remind me lol!

@Why are they even taking troubles of getting married?
very well-said Puneet...I dun u'stand why they get married when they can just live together n leave each other when they want to - after all that's what they do anyways n there r no bars for that in their culture anyways! I guess they take marriage as a luxury that can be tried once for the sake of fashion - oh boy!

Being too traditional can play against ya. It limits ur capacity to make ur own decisons based on ur own judgement. It's grt ur no too traditional...Im the same :)

Thanks Puneet, ur one sensible n smart dude..great to know that open-minded yet conservative-to-the-limit type of Indian guys like u exist...hugggz!

Keshi.

Keshi said...

Heyya Manish :)

@In other words LOVE is a byproduct of marriage.
hmmm nice concept...I believe Love can blossom after marriage, mostly in arranged marriages. I even saw a Tamil movie that proved it. It was a great movie. Well yep these vows dun much affect India or Sri Lanka...I dun mean to be racist but that's becos we dun think so narrow-mindedly as they do n we normally stick to one partner for life :)

Thanks for the book link...I will definitely have a read my friend.

Keshi.

PuNeEt said...

Thanks dear for all those kind words about me...
Happy hearing them ... don't know how true are they ?

"I guess they take marriage as a luxury that can be tried once for the sake of fashion"
Very well said... this was only left in the name of fashion :-)>

Huggzzz n Smiless...

Keshi said...

hehe Puneet mah pleasure :)

Keshi.

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